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Thread: Lake closures

  1. #41
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    This is a tragedy for our parks. I do have great respect for our Nebraska Game and Parks. I live near Rock Creek and love to fish there. So do many others. I just wonder how much revenue will be lost just from that park alone from Kansas and Colorado visitors. As for cost? Geez...around 3 maybe 4 mowings a year? Other than that there really seems to be not much expense there. Like the gentleman said earlier..it will most likely cost more to put up a road block and patrol the lake than to keep it open. Also, the kayak fishing population has been growing rapidly and the Nebraska Game and Parks does a lot to promote kayaking. With these closures much water has been eliminated that kayakers currently paddle. I do understand that there should be upgrades in the outhouses. One question I have is that will fishing still be allowed? Can you drag your kayak to the water? It all sounds political to me.
    Last edited by kayakjak; 08-30-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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    Park permit sales
    Total permits sold between January and July. (Includes annual, daily and duplicate park passes)
    2013: 336,425
    2012: 361,532
    2011: 322,683
    2010: 323,772
    2009: 325,001
    Revenue from permits. (The fee increase went into effect in January 2012)
    2013: $4,648,100
    2012: $4,891,980
    2011: $3,548,428
    2010: $3,613,538
    2009: $3,604,314
    -- Source: Nebraska Game and Parks Commission

    What gets me is there was only is 25207 permits were not sold compared to the previous year, why? No toilet paper? No water running down the Platte? Too many loud parties?

    It seems to me find out why? and try to fix that problem if possible. No whining about we don't have enough money..BALONEY!@!@! Daryl's blogs and other media articles have done nothing BUT PROMOTE NEBRASKA!!! A 10# bass possible? "The Quest" went viral and shows the Potential of Public Waters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnglerX View Post
    Park permit sales



    What gets me is there was only is 25207 permits were not sold compared to the previous year, why? No toilet paper? No water running down the Platte? Too many loud parties?

    It seems to me find out why? and try to fix that problem if possible. No whining about we don't have enough money..BALONEY!@!@! Daryl's blogs and other media articles have done nothing BUT PROMOTE NEBRASKA!!! A 10# bass possible? "The Quest" went viral and shows the Potential of Public Waters.
    Is it possible that the May winter weather had an effect on the permit sales?
    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mako View Post
    Is it possible that the May winter weather had an effect on the permit sales?
    It's possible? But your asking the wrong person..but how do ask people why they didn't purchase a permit this year?

    The fishery division appeared to have the means..but parks didn't.
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    I guess I'm doing OK, I have 3 pigeons named after me in Japan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnglerX View Post
    We already let booze in the parks
    that didn't solve the revenue issue?

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    My boat has spent more time in SD and KS this year than in my home state. I love NE and will always call it home, but when it comes to quality lakes(especially on the East side of NE) well there are none. The more I fish SD and KS the more I realize how far away I live from good, productive bodies of water. I guess if you like to grow corn this is the place to be, if you like large lakes with quality fishing then its not. These lakes being closed affects my hunting opportunities more than my fishing, but it still pisses me off. Nebraska you have a lot of people who want to recreate, with no place to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Until this commission and upper Game and park stooges are replaced, expect more of the same. As far as the universal park tax I still think it's a bad precedence. People will be paying for something they may not want. I know many old people on limited incomes who have no interest in fishing, camping, driving to a state park. Why should they have to pay for "able bodied Sportsmen" to go fishing, camping or hunting?. How about a graffiti tax, uneducated driver tax, wheels for poor people tax..... where does it stop? Anyway, rest assured all money collected will be misappropriated.


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    I know of two lakes that are getting chemical renovations this fall. Pawnee and Rat Beaver lakes. Neither are on the closed list. Closing Pawnee could of kept stagecoach open I would think.


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    Just Speechless !!!!!!

    If the State does not want them turn them over to the Counties or the NRD Districts to manage and maintain .

    Just flat ass dirty politics at it's finest !

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    Do like I did folks, take the government out of the equation by getting into air rifles. I have a range INSIDE my house, can shoot 24-7 regardless of weather, and I don't have some lifetime appointed political crony making the wrong decisions.

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    I see "temporary" and I see talk of for good. Speaking directly to Sandy Channel... Is GP just going to give it up? Sell it? Put a fence around it and lock the gate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Steinke View Post
    I see "temporary" and I see talk of for good. Speaking directly to Sandy Channel... Is GP just going to give it up? Sell it? Put a fence around it and lock the gate?
    As long as they give me a key, I'd be okay with that. I'll supply my own tp, as I did earlier this year in one of the fancy outhouses. There are no fish, especially LMB, in Sandy Channel anyway.

    I guess I should be looking on the bright side of this. I won't have to walk through tick infested, waist high grass/weeds to get to a spot that is rarely fished. I'll have a sidewalk to walk on! Do you think it will go around each of the lakes there or just the main one? I just hope a study has been done to see what the impact will be on the native tick species in the area...

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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymike View Post
    Do like I did folks, take the government out of the equation by getting into air rifles. I have a range INSIDE my house, can shoot 24-7 regardless of weather, and I don't have some lifetime appointed political crony making the wrong decisions.
    I also target shoot air rifles in my barn during the colder weather months. It really is a fun and relatively cheap hobby (unless you have a craving for really high-end PCP air rifles).

    However, it just doesn't satisfy my urge to open water fish, ice fish, or take the camper out to a decent state park with my family. I have been taking more and more trips out of state for my camping and fishing excursions these past few years, and I just do not see that trend reversing.

    It will sure be interesting to see what impact this will have on park permit, hunting and fishing license sales for 2014. I have been contemplating a lifetime fishing license, but there is no way I will do that now.

    Is anyone at the GF&P listening?

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    Just a couple other random thoughts (hopefully my previous ramblings didn't come across as slamming anyone or being overly critical of anyone other than the higher officials in our state government)... What would everyone's thoughts be if certain lakes started having daily use fees. Maybe like $3 for use of the parking lot/ramp/fish cleaning stations? I've been to several lakes outside the state that do this. I understand that is the point of the park stickers, but to do it on some of the larger and more popular lakes (Calamus, Big Mac, Merritt) might generate revenue. Another question which probably has no way of being answered accurately, how have lifetime permits affected revenue generation for NGPC? I'm sure they were a nice windfall when they first came out, but how much money did that cost in the long run to not have the income from the annual licenses and annual stamps? (Again, to be clear, I'm not complaining...my lifetime hunt and fish permits are firmly imbedded in my wallet at all times).

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    As I mentioned wild places need to be wild. The less improved they are the less they cost to maintain. I don’t need a lighted parking lot, and I can bring my own TP. I can pack out my own garbage and if I wanted to see manicured mowed yards I would pitch camp in my back yard.

    Understandably however there is a whole segment of users that think they need to bring an entire home with them. Personally I think they should just throw in a mower and mow around their campsite. After all they brought everything else from home with them. Might as well go that extra 1% and get the full staying at home experience. The people that need these amenities are the ones that should be paying for them.

    The ADA, which I fully support simply because it’s the right thing to do, is still a mystery to me? What is reasonable access?? There is a national park in Colorado that even has handicap parking in the parking lot of the trail head. However once out there is no way a wheelchair is going on any of the trails?

    Is reasonable access a 50K handicapped accessible dock/pier that needs regular maintenance? Is being able to get to one place on a 1,000 an acre lake reasonable? Or would properly groomed but not overly improved multiple access points around the entire lake be more reasonable?

    The problem with government as a whole anymore is nobody thinks. It’s simply not that hard to figure out how to do the right thing

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    Actually mrcold, I think it all boils down to state funding for the commisssion and how it is funded (in this case) lack of sustainable state funding. ie.....why the grandstanding is taking place. Course mix in that the philosophy of our Commissioner and Board of Commissioners, and not only the present Commissioner and Board of commissioners, but the lack of insight from the past also. What lead us to this point? Maybe its the present economy, maybe the lack of past forsight, maybe overspending the financial input compared to the outflow of expenses, maybe the NGPC really not making a consistent pursuit of better State funding by getting Legislators onboard to change our outdated NGPC funding mechanisms, maybe the apppointed commissioner and past commissioners not pursuing with the governor who appointed them to lead the bandwagon for changing how NGPC is funded, maybe its our fault too for not taking stronger action to get Legislators on board for changing the financial formula for NGPC. We can spread the blame aorund I think to many factors.

    I think it goes beyond funding the NGPC by relying on permits and park entries, etc. The needed money is just too great to rely on permits in NE. (Now that is an entirely new debate). But whatever the causes, something needs revamped and I think it starts with elected officals and not appointed. And it takes oversight and a watchdog group to oversee spending if ever the NGPC funding mechansisms are changed. Gradually the NGPC was just taking on too much for the revenue coming in......thus insufficient sustainable funding for what we have done. Its going to take alot more then permits in NE. We can argue all we want that NE is behind times when it comes to opportunities compared to other states, that other states fund their commisson; yet we have to understand that NE is different. Many activities we do enjoy, but what really makes people want to come to NE? I love our state, and most do, but what is it going to take to attract people to really want to come here like the ole days of pheasant hunting, etc? Our population base cannot keep up with sustainable income to fund what the NGPC is presently pursuing under our present funding formula and has in the past .....thus the grandstanding to draw attention to our funding mess! A major revamping is in order....and its way past due. Maybe we all have to ramp up our efforts....from all of us!!! The direct line to changing the funding for NGPC is through the Legislators and the governor! Then that has to be followed by accountability!
    Last edited by Hookem; 08-31-2013 at 10:24 AM. Reason: sp
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    Thanks for the response. I think about how we are the only state that actually enforces a balanced budget. It's a good and noble goal. And what it results in is the Police Chiefs, City and State Fire Marshals, NGPC officials, and every other state-funded group in a standoff sounding the alarm for how our state will collapse unless $100 million is immediately budgeted for item X. I'll tell another story that I may or may not have inside knowledge about, just to show why our state government frustrates me. Several years ago, while Nebraska was solidly ranked at #48 in the country for child welfare (not welfare, to be clear), our state officials went to an unnamed state directly south of us. They presented Nebraska's plan for the safe haven law where anyone could drop of their child for the state to take in...with the age cutoff set at 18 years of age. This unnamed state, being ranked in the top 5 in the country for child welfare, politely said this was an absolutely idiotic plan, and we would soon be collecting every thug, runaway, and out-of-control child in the entire country under the age of 18. Our state officials said that would never happen, and proceeded with that plan. Two years later, with our system in complete chaos for the exact reasons explained in the meetings, our government hired private companies to try and straighten out their mess. When they tried to cut the contracts with these companies to minimize the damage they caused, the private companies said they could not continue to lose money due to Nebraska's breaches of contracts. The state government raked the private companies over the coals in the public eye, and explained how these evil companies were attempting to fleece the state (by expecting our government to abide by their contracts). While this grandstanding continued in public, millions of dollars were paid out by the state to these companies in an effort to avoid the lawsuits they would surely lose due to breach of contract. That is the grandstanding portion of this situation. I can assure you the story continues and gets MUCH more revealing and frustrating...but those portions are a bit more legally protected. I'm sorry for getting so off-topic and frustrated with this situation, but I hate seeing so many people in my beloved state having to pay for the stupidity of a few bloviating asshats in Lincoln.

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    mrcold, thank you for explaning alot more background then I wanted to. What you explained is much of the background where I was coming from also. I was explicitly involved in the HHS thing back then with letters, emails, contact with senators, newspaper emails, head of the HHS, and many others involded in that mess. And I saw firsthand how they used exertion to squeeze employees out who disagreed! ( And yes I have proof should anyone in those authorities question it or desire to seek me out. ) My closest loved one even met face to face with the governor and head man of HHS back then....and what a disgraceful display they recieved with temper and stubborness.....things we don't see on TV and public appearance. You and I know and am sure many others know what resulted from that mess. It does give an example in reality what happens with the fiscal philosophy in this State and the repercussions to all areas! Back in that one example not only were those companies raked over the coals, but the children, foster parents, employees in those supporting agencies and even now we feel the repercussions. With the fiscal philosophy in NE, we will continue to see what now is happening to closing these parks......its another item on the list of what has happened in the past and will happen to others in the future.............like I said somewhere on this subject, it goes to the Governor and Legislators.....will we keep allowing them to do this or try our best to get things changed! If something doesn't change, it will just keep going forward!!! Thank you for having the nerve mrcold to show how it goes beyond just NGPC!! Its a fiscal philosophy in this State and if left to continue will have far more repercussions ahead.
    Last edited by Hookem; 08-31-2013 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Avoid government harrassment from original words used
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    How do you keep wild places open to the disabled? Just an ADA wondering. Just an example of how the Federal Govt has increased the costs of running govt agencies. I would love for centerx suggestions be taken up, but there do need to be some places with modifications in order to draw the less hardy folks out to the parks. Not everybody can or will walk 1/2 mile or so through burrs weeds bugs etc to get to a lake. As for this being Political grandstanding, of course, the politicians in Nebraska see what the Prez did by closing down the White House to tours because of the budget interactions between the prez and congress. Let the people suffer, while the big wigs take $100 million dollar trips to Africa. Hmmmmmmm, is Daryl taking a fishing trip to Africa in the near future. Ehhhhhhh, who cares, we don't have to pay for his trips, unless they are work trips.

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    Just thought this was well worth repeating!

    THANK YOU, Hookem!

    Note to MrCold, my "People" reference was to those Nebraskan's (average <37%) that actually pulled the handle on the "one-handed bandit" machine at the Voting Booth.

    There are a couple ideas surfacing "off line" that might make a difference in the Park Division's "move", but I'm still not yet convinced that Outdoors people in Nebraska will turn out any better... BUT AT LEAST AN EFFORT IS BEING MADE beyond just spouting blame and displeasure!

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