commission meeting not public

littleben · 07-01-2008, 09:36 PM

It has come to my attention that when the ngpc has a meeting, they actually meet in private the day before to decide the issues, isn't this a violation of the public meetings laws? I have been to over a dozen ngpc commission meetings and always wondered how they have 5 or 6 meetings a year that last 20 or 30 minutes. Now I think it is because they meet privately the day before.. thats not right is it?

**Chad** · 07-02-2008, 08:29 AM

I don't think it's a big deal, but I'm not sure what the statutes state. To me, it seems like doing extra work to be prepared.

OldBaldGuy · 07-02-2008, 01:47 PM

What you have there (and it's common practice for public boards other than the NGPC) is a practice that meets the letter of the law while violating the spirit of the law. As long as the actual vote is taken in an "open" meeting, the practice is legal. Nevermind that the public has had no opportunity to hear the debate that led to those votes.

The rationale that is always given for this practice is that commissioners/trustees/directors should be allowed to ask stupid questions without public embarassment (eg, if the topic is Johnson Lake, the member should be able to ask "Where is Johnson?"). I'd always respond to that question with a question of my own: "Doesn't the public have the right to know how dumb some of their representatives really are?"

Personally, I think it's a "big deal," whether it's the NGPC, the Regents, or any other board theoretically answerable to the public. It's simply bad government.

**Chad** · 07-02-2008, 01:57 PM

Are you saying our commissioners are dumb?

OldBaldGuy · 07-02-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad

Are you saying our commissioners are dumb?

Not at all, Chad.

I've been to a commission meeting recently and, overall, was impressed by the commissioners I met. My impression is that we possibly have the best group of NG&P commissioners, collectively, we've ever had.

My issue is with the non-public "work session" approach to governance -- wherever it occurs -- where everything is settled beforehand. And my point is that IF one member were dumber than a bucket of hair, how would you know?

GenericAngler · 07-02-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBaldGuy

My issue is with the non-public "work session" approach to governance -- wherever it occurs -- where everything is settled beforehand. And my point is that IF one member were dumber than a bucket of hair, how would you know?

He is the one who (after a vote) has a puzzled look on his face and then makes the statement somewhere along the lines of "that is not what we agreed to in yesterday's meeting".....followed by a lot of shhhhh shhh shhh and the motion of fingers being ran across necks

littleben · 07-03-2008, 09:25 AM

So are these day before the meeting "information" sessions actually closed to the public, or just not required to be advertised because there is no vote. I might like to attend and hear the disscussion as I think the information given during these meetings would go along way towards helping me and others understand the issues. Does anybody know how to find out about this???

obert · 07-03-2008, 09:53 AM

This is off the SD GFP webpage. Do we have anything like this at all? It appears SD is very informative and wants the public to be involved where as it appears the opposite here. I say appears b/c I'm just assuming, and we know about assuming.

Quote:

GFP Commission Listing
Monthly Meeting Schedule & Information
Current Rule Proposals
Summary of last commission meeting (with select audio)
DRAFT minutes of last meeting - subject to commission approval at their next meeting (PDF)

Draft minutes of Commission Governance Meeting

Draft Public Hearing minutes (June)

Citizen Evaluation of Game, Fish and Parks (2007) (PDF 9mb)

Citizen Evaluation of Game, Fish and Parks (2007) Summary (PDF)

littleben · 07-03-2008, 07:41 PM

I did not mean to or should not have implied that any underhanded is going on. I would just like to know if the public can attend these informational sessions. Seems to me like we could all benifit from hearing the background information, especially if at the meeting there is going to be a public hearing. That way we the public could have a better understanding of the issues, just like the commissioners do. Anybody here know who to ask at game and parks about this.

laughingwatr · 07-04-2008, 09:34 AM

Nebraska has very strict public meeting laws and the agency I sit on does not even consider a gathering where a quorum may be present without public notice. I have no doubt that the NGPC is operating within the law but it would be interesting to know how they can do this.

WalkingNe · 07-04-2008, 01:37 PM

Don't they still have public info meetings throughout the state where upcoming issues are open for discussion with the public? I have attended a couple of those, I notice they are mainly hosted by G&P officials and not commissioners.

Not sure I like the idea of holding practice meetings either. Will be interested to hear if this is legal or common practice elsewhere.

Immortality · 07-04-2008, 11:07 PM

It would appear that this is a violation of Nebraska's Open Meeting Act. They probably do it because no one has ever called them on it. I've seen this Act used to get zoning permits for confined animal feeding operations tossed because the county board visited the operation with a quorum and no notice to the public.

Neb. Rev. Stat. 84-1409(2) Meeting means all regular, special, or called meetings, formal or informal, of any public body for the purposes of briefing, discussion of public business, formation of tentative policy, or the taking of any action of the public body;

"The public meetings law is broadly interpreted and liberally construed to obtain the objective of openness in favor of the public, and provisions permitting closed sessions must be narrowly and strictly construed. Grein v. Board of Education of Fremont, 216 Neb. 158, 343 N.W.2d 718 (1984)."

As long as public business is discussed, it has to be open to the public. There are a few exceptions but it doesn't appear that these meetings would fall into those exceptions.

Black Lab 1 · 07-07-2008, 08:22 PM

It's clear the NGPC needs all the practice they can get. Some day they'll get it right.

**Chad** · 07-08-2008, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Lab 1

It's clear the NGPC needs all the practice they can get. Some day they'll get it right.

There are so many things they already do exceptionally well. It's easy for citizens to play arm-chair quarterback, but they have actually devoted their careers to promoting and protecting the resource in an age where that's far from easy.

07-01-2008, 09:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
littleben Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	commission meeting not public It has come to my attention that when the ngpc has a meeting, they actually meet in private the day before to decide the issues, isn't this a violation of the public meetings laws? I have been to over a dozen ngpc commission meetings and always wondered how they have 5 or 6 meetings a year that last 20 or 30 minutes. Now I think it is because they meet privately the day before.. thats not right is it?

07-02-2008, 08:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Chad Director Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Gone Fishin' Posts: 5,855	I don't think it's a big deal, but I'm not sure what the statutes state. To me, it seems like doing extra work to be prepared. __________________ Post like a gentleman... it's good for your blood pressure... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-02-2008, 01:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
OldBaldGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The paradise formerly known as Elkhorn Posts: 4,801	What you have there (and it's common practice for public boards other than the NGPC) is a practice that meets the letter of the law while violating the spirit of the law. As long as the actual vote is taken in an "open" meeting, the practice is legal. Nevermind that the public has had no opportunity to hear the debate that led to those votes. The rationale that is always given for this practice is that commissioners/trustees/directors should be allowed to ask stupid questions without public embarassment (eg, if the topic is Johnson Lake, the member should be able to ask "Where is Johnson?"). I'd always respond to that question with a question of my own: "Doesn't the public have the right to know how dumb some of their representatives really are?" Personally, I think it's a "big deal," whether it's the NGPC, the Regents, or any other board theoretically answerable to the public. It's simply bad government. __________________ “I think every happy memory plucks a hair from your head; if you see an old bald guy, he’s probably had a great life.” –-Red Green

07-02-2008, 01:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chad Director Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Gone Fishin' Posts: 5,855	Are you saying our commissioners are dumb? __________________ Post like a gentleman... it's good for your blood pressure... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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07-03-2008, 09:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
littleben Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	So are these day before the meeting "information" sessions actually closed to the public, or just not required to be advertised because there is no vote. I might like to attend and hear the disscussion as I think the information given during these meetings would go along way towards helping me and others understand the issues. Does anybody know how to find out about this???

07-03-2008, 07:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
littleben Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	I did not mean to or should not have implied that any underhanded is going on. I would just like to know if the public can attend these informational sessions. Seems to me like we could all benifit from hearing the background information, especially if at the meeting there is going to be a public hearing. That way we the public could have a better understanding of the issues, just like the commissioners do. Anybody here know who to ask at game and parks about this.

07-04-2008, 09:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
laughingwatr Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niobrara River Posts: 84	Nebraska has very strict public meeting laws and the agency I sit on does not even consider a gathering where a quorum may be present without public notice. I have no doubt that the NGPC is operating within the law but it would be interesting to know how they can do this.

07-04-2008, 01:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
WalkingNe Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 38	Don't they still have public info meetings throughout the state where upcoming issues are open for discussion with the public? I have attended a couple of those, I notice they are mainly hosted by G&P officials and not commissioners. Not sure I like the idea of holding practice meetings either. Will be interested to hear if this is legal or common practice elsewhere.

07-04-2008, 11:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Immortality Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lincoln Posts: 68	It would appear that this is a violation of Nebraska's Open Meeting Act. They probably do it because no one has ever called them on it. I've seen this Act used to get zoning permits for confined animal feeding operations tossed because the county board visited the operation with a quorum and no notice to the public. Neb. Rev. Stat. 84-1409(2) Meeting means all regular, special, or called meetings, formal or informal, of any public body for the purposes of briefing, discussion of public business, formation of tentative policy, or the taking of any action of the public body; "The public meetings law is broadly interpreted and liberally construed to obtain the objective of openness in favor of the public, and provisions permitting closed sessions must be narrowly and strictly construed. Grein v. Board of Education of Fremont, 216 Neb. 158, 343 N.W.2d 718 (1984)." As long as public business is discussed, it has to be open to the public. There are a few exceptions but it doesn't appear that these meetings would fall into those exceptions.

07-07-2008, 08:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Black Lab 1 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 666	It's clear the NGPC needs all the practice they can get. Some day they'll get it right.