Feed Trained LMB

[FishinSecrets]

I wonder if this was a pellet trained bass...I'm pretty sure it's an F1 fish

[Mako]

Originally Posted by FishinSecrets

I wonder if this was a pellet trained bass...I'm pretty sure it's an F1 fish

That's not a fish...that's a football.

[Aquaman]

FishinSecrets, would you mind giving us a little more history on that particular LMB? Does it come from a pond that has pellet feedings? What state or region is it from?

[FishinSecrets]

It was wierd I've caught hundreds of bass out of this lake that weren't anything like this fish, or this fish I caught two casts later. The pond owner said he stocked "gorilla" bass as fingerlings, but they never took off. Apparently a few did!!! I'm not sure how much this fish weighed, but it was a pig. Both fish hit walking type top water lures.


This is the same pond the bluegill hybrids I posted in the fishing forum come from. The pond also has donaldsons, browns, tiger trout, brookies, crappie, perch, gills, channel cats, common carp, grass carp, and shad. The pond owner is very strict on catch and release with single barbless hooks on all the species, but channel cats, perch, and grass carp he wants taken out.

[Aquaman]

So does he feed pellets or not? I'd assume with Donaldsons in there that there must be some kind of feeding program.

[burrodebo]

What are Donaldsons?

[Shorty]

Bo - they are Super Rainbow Trout.

Super Fish

[Frosch]

O.k I read about the Donaldsons and I've read about triploid trouthttp://www.eou.edu/~mmustoe/Fishing.html..
So if you make a Donaldson a triploid would you have a super duper trout?

Aquaman do these bass eat anything else but pellets? Do they behave like "wild" bass. I mean do the hang out in the same areas? Do they hang around cover waiting for the next pellet to float by? Can you catch them on lures?
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[FishinSecrets]

Sorry aquaman got distracted here for a minute. For some reason people around here expect me to do some actual work from time to time instead of dreaming about fishing.

The lake is in Denver Colorado I'm bad at estimating size, but a personal pontoon is great for the lake. It only takes a couple minutes to paddle from one side of the lake to the other. On my vex the deepest spots I could find where about 25 feet deep. The entire shoreline is covered with overhanging trees, rip rap, or cattails. Thre's only one clear section and thats the belly boat/personal pontoon launch. Which is the only way your allowed to fish this lake no shore fishing is allowed. Mainly so the owner of the lake can keep tabs on what everyone is doing.

Punch(lake owner) does feed the trout pellets twice a day in the spring and fall, but doesn't in the middle of summer. Mainly because the trout stay deep and pretty unactive in summer due to the high water temps. As soon as the water starts getting hot in summer he closes the trout fishing. There's still a few caught on accident, but it's pretty rare. The trout are fun to fish for and their huge, but you can't touch them. Punch wants anglers to bring the fish next to the boat and release them with needle nose pliers. Just grab the hook with your pliers, pull it out, and watch the fish swim away. So getting pictures of these huge trout doesn't really happen which is a shame because their great fish. Although with as much money as Punch invests in these trout I don't blame him for his policies.

The Bass have so many different forage options that it's hard to pick a lure at times. Between crawdads, shad, small bluegill and crappie the big bass have a pretty easy life on the lake.

Punch has owned the lake for years and has allowed fishing for a yearly dues fee for over 20 years I believe. We have members from all over the state....It's amazing some guys drive for a few hours to fish Lake Carol Anne, and I'm lucky enough that it's only 10 minutes from my house.

I've joined it for a few years now, but my Tiger Musky hunting is taking top priority this year so I'm not sure if I'll join. If I do I'd be happy to take you as a guest one day if your in the Denver area.

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by Frosch

O.k I read about the Donaldsons and I've read about triploid trouthttp://www.eou.edu/~mmustoe/Fishing.html..
So if you make a Donaldson a triploid would you have a super duper trout?

Aquaman do these bass eat anything else but pellets? Do they behave like "wild" bass. I mean do the hang out in the same areas? Do they hang around cover waiting for the next pellet to float by? Can you catch them on lures?
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Here's my take on it.

Pellet trained largemouth bass are not a "selected strain", so they maintain all of the natural characteristics of largemouth bass, including preference for cover, and predilection for chasing bluegill around. The one difference in how they intereact with prey species would likely be the fact that they are satiated as much as the landowner wishes, so there are probably more times during any one day that they aren't actively on the prowl. Keep in mind though, that a "fit" fish is a fast and muscular fish, so they have no problem capturing prey, or capturing your lure. I've now fished for them twice and couldn't hardly keep them off the hook. They'll hit any artificial lure, especially before feeding time. As many of you LMB enthusiasts know, a LMB will chase things even when he's already eaten.

Potential negatives include:

1. Water quality management becomes paramount because of presence of more waste per unit of water.

2. Additional cost of feeding.

3. Early versions of feed trained bass were a little drab in color (actually kinda bluish looking), but this is being adressed by the feed manufacturers, notably Purina.

4. Possibly a reduced lifespan vs. an extremely fit, non pellet trained bass because of stress on the fish's liver from the diet mix. This is also being addressed by Purina with their "largemouth aquamax" feed.

Positives include:

1. Tremendously fast growth

2. Lots of large individuals can be supported.

3. Much higher densities (weight of fish/unit of water)

4. Some more esoteric things like watching a group of 100 four-pounders going crazy on the surface while the kids watch.

[Frosch]

Thanks Aquaman. How long have people been pellet feeding bass?

Esoteric knowledge is that which is specialized or advanced in nature, available only to a narrow circle of "enlightened", "initiated", or highly educated people.

Thanks for the new word.

[Aquaman]

Have you ever seen the movie "Old School" when Will Ferrell debates James Carville?

Well, every once in a while I have a Will Ferrell moment.

I thought about throwing in some semicolons for OBG, but I know he doesn't read the pond forum. Everybody knows you can't catch big bluegill in small water bodies.

19 inches and 5.5 pounds...

[bachelorpads]

I would think that feeding a fish in this manner would be MUCH more likely to produce a world record fish then letting nature take its course.

I understand the issues that are being brought up here with water quality and whatnot but, if you went in the with the sole goal of raising a world record class bass, this has got to be the most efficient way of doing just that. Food that is super high in needed nutrients and continual feeding. It would be kind of like Barry Bonds on HGH, except it would be FGH (fish growth hormone), sorry bad joke.

Take a small, deep body of water that is in an environment where the water is around 55-65 degrees year round (cooler to keep the fish alive for more years). Place a very small number of bass into the pond. Add in all the prey species you like, and feed those bass like crazy. If you could start with bass reared from something like the Texas Share Lunker program you would probably be right on track to hit 20lbs in 6-8 years if you started with 2-4lb fish. Basically gorging a bass until it is as big and fat as physically possible.

I believe this will be accomplished within the next 5-10 years. There are too many people trying and people are darn resourceful.

Just my 2 cents

[Aquaman]

I think you make several valid points. I believe that the ticket to large fish, and this includes fish that aren't artificially fed as well, lies in the OFT, or "Optimal Foraging Theory". This essentially states that a fish needs to get the most calories in, vs. the most calories out. That's why high prey density, especially vulnerable prey, is essential in growing huge fish. Pellets only partially fit the bill, because they aren't probably as nutritious as a golden shiner or rainbow trout, but they don't take much effort to chase down.

Just remember that you really need to emphasize having LOTS of natural forage, even in "fed" situations.

[vonny571]

While the cooler water temps as suggested above may allow a longer life span, would it not also slow the growth rates of the fish in said body of water?

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by vonny571

While the cooler water temps as suggested above may allow a longer life span, would it not also slow the growth rates of the fish in said body of water?

Yes. That is why it would be important to choose fish that are best suited for your climate. It would probably be detrimental for a Nebraska pond owner to get his fish from Arkansas.

Ultimately, the further north you are, the longer you would have to wait to achieve your ultimate goal. If your goal was a state record however, your particular goal would likely be a lighter weight. Personally I think it would be best to feed train your own. It absolutely can be done. That way you could select for feed training, and also select for a fish that exhibits good fitness in your particular climate.

I am so excited that you guys thought this was an interesting topic. It's something that I'm fascinated about.

[Willie Boy]

Originally Posted by vonny571

While the cooler water temps as suggested above may allow a longer life span, would it not also slow the growth rates of the fish in said body of water?

Good point...but also keep in mind that those California bass reside in 'cooler' water that we typically think optimal...I think if a guy were to have water that could stay 50°F-70°F year-round and a source of high protein/energy food (like rainbow pellets or actual pellets) then, while they can grow at accelerated rates, there's a natural 'buffer' to 'burning out'..

On the other end of the spectrum: limiting how low the water temps actually do get also helps those fish continue to feed/grow more actively year-round.

Aquaman, this is a great topic...lots to consider/discuss.

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by Willie Boy

Good point...but also keep in mind that those California bass reside in 'cooler' water that we typically think optimal...I think if a guy were to have water that could stay 50°F-70°F year-round and a source of high protein/energy food (like rainbow pellets or actual pellets) then, while they can grow at accelerated rates, there's a natural 'buffer' to 'burning out'..

On the other end of the spectrum: limiting how low the water temps actually do get also helps those fish continue to feed/grow more actively year-round.

Aquaman, this is a great topic...lots to consider/discuss.

This brings me to one of the most interesting and amazing quotes concerning giant largemouth bass that I've ever read. It comes from a great source--Doug Hannon "The Bass Professor".

This in regards to California largemouth that reach twenty pounds:

"The balloon-like proportions of these fish indicate adaptive specialization at its extreme limits. Just as coyotes have adjusted to susbist on garbage and poodles in the Los Angeles suburbs, California bass have adjusted to feed on stocker rainbows. Staying close to this food source, which has a preferred temperature around 54 degrees F., keeps these bass in the cooler fringes of their environment, which in turn triggers the fat-storing mechanisms of a pre-winter metabolism. As a result, an 18-pound California largemouth is no longer than a 10-pound Tennessee bass, just a heck of a lot fatter".

I guess what it means is that you may actually be able to mimic this environment in a cooler well fed pond. By triggering the fat storing mechanisms, and feeding stocker rainbows, or possibly LMB diet from Purina you could grow a bass to stupendous proportions.

[Frosch]

Hey Aquaman you beat me to the Doug Hannon quote. I just picked up Big Bass Magic at the swapmeet a couple weeks ago.
"For a bass not merely maintain body weight, but to actually grow,takes water in the 50Fs to the mid 80Fs.Hot water means a shorter lifespan."
For that reason he thinks the record bass will come from central FL because that is the range of temps through the entire year. Also because FL produces long bass that have a big enough frame to exceed 20lbs. He thinks for a record breaker it would have be a pure northern strain with a florida strain. The one for length and the other for weight.

"It may take private waters to produce the next world record bass because on by keeping people out can you truly keep the environment stable over a long period of time."
I haven't gotten that far into the book yet but is interesting so far.

[OldBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by Aquaman

"I thought about throwing in some semicolons for OBG, but I know he doesn't read the pond forum. Everybody knows you can't catch big bluegill in small water bodies. ..."

I was doing fine, Bruce, until you made the disparaging remark about double cheeseburgers.

Note to Frosch: Were you disappointed to learn "esoteric" isn't a dirty word?