Green Sunfish/Stunted fish?

[MA Machine]

I have more than a couple questions. This is a Green Sunfish isn't it?


It's 9 1/2" long. I like to catch them but I noticed that the Nebraska Pond Management guide lists them in the same category as bullheads and carp. why is that? I am going to try to improve my brothers lake/pond. The LMB's are all pretty much short and fat (12"-15"). I have caught some 19's but not many. The bluegills are mostly all small 5"-7" and there are a ton of them. I know of 4 cats that live in the lake and usually only catch them while jigging, never while catfishing. The crappie fishing is really really good. Lots and lots of 10" skinny crappies and a bunch of 11-14" fat crappies, some up to 17". There are some walleye in it that are around 22" but very few. The walleye do spawn in the lake and the other fish eat the fry. Here's my theory. The Crappies have taken control of the food supply and overpopulated the lake. The bluegills and bass have become stunted and the green sunfish are just having a good time since they are so aggressive they don't care. My initial thoughts would be to take a bunch of the 10" and less crappies out, take a bunch of the small bluegills out, add some cats and thin the herd a bit on the bass. At some point I would like to add some hybrid bluegills. I want to leave the walleye alone since they are a oddity and provide a source of food to the lake. I have read both the Kansas and Nebraska Pond Management guide and have not decided if we want a bass lake or big gill lake. I'm shooting for the middle road for now just to get it under control. I thought about aeration but I like to ice fish the lake so that's out. I thought about feeding the fish but not without aeration. is there a low scale feeding program that I can use in conjunction of fish reduction. I don't want a fish welfare lake. We may be obtaining another lake/pond which would be great for a big bass, big cat lake. If that happens then this lake will be turned into a big crappie/gill/hybrid lake if possible. The current lake has very steep drop off's to 13 feet on 1/2 and the other half is a 4-6' deep sandy/mud bottom. I'm sort of afraid to make any changes yet since I don't have the confidence level I would like on my idea. Any help would be appreciated.

[Shorty]

Wow MA Machine, lots of questions in just single post. Your fish picture is most likely a green sunfish or a hybrid, since you have both GSF and BG present hybrids should show up on their own, I wouldn't buy any or stock any hyrbrid BG, it would likely be a waste of money. Besides, you need to make some decisions on the goals of your pond before preceding further. One thing is for certain, the crappie are an interesting twist you will need to deal with and you should keep harvest pressure on them.


As far as aeration goes you do not need to aerate year round, most guys do a start up procedure in the spring and then shut down aerating in the fall. If one chooses to aerate during the winter then one should move your diffuers to shallow water otherwise you can supercool the entire water column and create a fish kill.

[MA Machine]

That's some good advice. I was worried that if I started aeration and quit in the winter it would cause a depletion situation. I never thought about supercooling the lake, GOOD Point! I think the crappie situation is my number one concern right now. I guess I should weed them out and some of the small bluegills and see if that makes any difference. I'll have to start a catch log for sure. I am going to add 10 or so cats. If nothing else their offspring may add to the food chain and they will eat some of the small gills. Any opinion on crayfish stocking? Fall is the best time and this lake is sandpit so I don't have to worry about any dams. There is plenty of cover for crayfish to survive but will they have a impact on any future fish hatches? I'm just thinking of some sustainable food sources for the lake that does not have a big negative impact on anything else.. I've read so much stuff I've confused myself.

[MA Machine]

One more question. What about just adding a bunch of fathead minnows? Will that boost all the crappie, bass and GSF's up a bit while I also start reducing fish numbers?

[Shorty]

Fathead minnows would disappear fairly quickly, they are not too bright when it comes to predator evasion. Frequently when a bluegill spots a predator it freezes and goes motionless, when a fathead minnow spots a predator it takes off and runs, then the chase is on. The other thing to worry about with stocking lots of fatheads is that a few bullheads may get mixed in with them sometimes.

Bluegill are typically the backbone of most small ponds when it comes to forage, a supplemental feeding program can help their growth rates and and also help the BG pull off a larger spawn in the spring by improved body conditions leading to more forage. If you have some shallow areas in the pit you might want to consider adding pea gravel to supplement the bluegill spawning areas. If you are going to put harvest pressure on the sunfish do it on the green sunfish and their hybrids. Green sunfish have a much lower reproductive rate than BG and most hybrid BG are males, typically both green sunfish and their hybrids make for a poor forage base.

[Shorty]

One other thing, if you are going to aerate and start a suplemental feeding program people typicaly start doing this when the water temps reach at least 55 degrees in the spring and stop doing both in the fall when temps drop below 55 degrees.

[MA Machine]

The bluegill population is really good but they are all small. Should I mess with them other than a limited feeding program? I sort of feel like I need to weed them out a bit since the majority of them are pretty small.

[fearnofish]

I dont know much on this subject but a friend of mine has a fairly good sized pond that he redid a few years ago. This guy knows what he is talking about and took all of the crappie out of there. According to him crappie will take over your entire pond. He also has lots of gills but takes out as many as possible and throws back the big guys. The size of his bass are steadily getting larger and thats what he wants. Is it true that if you are catching lots of little bass you should get rid of some of em?

[LincolnLunger]

sorry I dont have a reply for your thread MA machine but I have a question for all of you guys...There is a small pond that I fish quite often that is jam packed full of puny little crappies That average about 6 inches long, and I have been fishing this pond for several years and Have caught thousands of these crappies but only one of them were over 10 inches and it was 17 inches but otherwise all I catch are these stupid little 6 inch crappies... Is there a reason why these crappie stay 6 inches long and only a handful grow over 10 inches? Should I start taking a bunch of the 6 inch crappie out of the pond or what

P.S the pond is only a couple acres and I am not sure how deep it is but if I had to guess I would say maybe around 8 or 10 feet deep bu that is just my guess.

[Shorty]

MaMachine, consider your small BG as forage for the larger fish, you shouldn't need to remove them. Bassheads like to see lots of stunted BG in lakes. You might want to consider adding "tight" bush piles to give young of the year fish a place to escape early predation if there is little cover/structure in the pit.

Lincolnlunger, crappie have a tendency to stunt in small ponds due to overcrowding. In addition crappie are intermittent spawners and only pull off a good spawn every few years. Put some harvest pressure on those 6" crappie if you want to see some larger ones in the future. Crappie are not recommended in small ponds for those reasons.

[MA Machine]

I'll lay off the small BG's for a while. I'll just concentrate on the crappie. I really believe that they are the big problem. If I don't see results I may look else where but I feel this may make a difference. Of course we are talking about a bunch of fish that need to be thinned out but I'm sure it can be done. A friend of mine thinned out his crappie pond in the sandhills. 3 boys with panfish assassins lost count at 500 over a 2 day period. I think they might still be dragging them out. There were several MA's also in the pond that were let go. I know crappie are a dangerous game for small ponds/lakes. They are very invasive and need to be controlled but I'll try to leave some in and see if I can reach a balance point with them.

[LASTCRAWLER]

It sounds like your predator fish need a chance to grow. Once you have an established group of bass and walleye are big enough to control the crappie and gill numbers I would think it would take care of itself.

Just my opinion, I think that bluegills will kill off sunfish. A friend has some private pits. Some were stocked with green sunfish and some with blue gill. Each were doing fine at their own pit. When we were young, many moons ago, we decided to put green sunfish in the pit with gils. They never established and we did it a half dozen times. The first time we moved the gils to the green sunfish pit they established and drove off the green sunfish. 5 years later, the green sunfish were completely gone.

Another of the pits they were going to make a trophy crappie lake and only put catfish in. The crappie were everywhere and bug eyed n skinny till we put some largemouth in it. Now it has balance. I personally know of some 8lb bass that have been caught in this one. I haven't been back in 20 years. Good luck.