Lease Discussion

[Thorson]

LEASING SUCKS!

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Thorson

LEASING SUCKS!

If you want to discuss the merits or detriments of leasing (a great topic by the way), be a gentleman and post up a new thread in the hunting forum. No need to post that on a fellow forum member's thread when he's trying to get his land leased.

[Thorson]

Chad if you are on board with the whole leasing thing that is your perogative. I believe it is the end to all hunting, I have expressed an opinion without attacking anyone. As an administatrator of this site would it not be prudent to not allow this "advertising" on such a controversial topic. I know you will lose more members by supporting leasing than opposing it, and that means less hits on this site which would make this less appealing to your advertisers and your bottom dollar.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Thorson

Chad if you are on board with the whole leasing thing that is your perogative. I believe it is the end to all hunting, I have expressed an opinion without attacking anyone. As an administatrator of this site would it not be prudent to not allow this "advertising" on such a controversial topic. I know you will lose more members by supporting leasing than opposing it, and that means less hits on this site which would make this less appealing to your advertisers and your bottom dollar.

I do appreciate that you didn't attack anyone - thank you.

I don't support leasing. In fact, we've had several discussions on this topic before and I usually say the same thing, "If you don't want leases to be the future of hunting, don't make them the present."

Lastly, we only have 1 sponsor - Cabela's. And you can see that we have worked that partnership to the advantage of the members. This forum isn't profitable nor is it intended to be.

[WalkingNe]

Originally Posted by Thorson

Chad if you are on board with the whole leasing thing that is your perogative. I believe it is the end to all hunting, I have expressed an opinion without attacking anyone. As an administatrator of this site would it not be prudent to not allow this "advertising" on such a controversial topic. I know you will lose more members by supporting leasing than opposing it, and that means less hits on this site which would make this less appealing to your advertisers and your bottom dollar.

You want to know what will bring an end to all hunting just as fast as land leases? Its disrespectful outdoorsman. In the past till this year its been on a permission basis only. But I come to find people on the ground saying they have permission, permission from someone else I had given permission a year ago. That's not having permission in my book. In the past few years I have gone out to find gates left open, well pumps on, windmills shot, atv/4x4 tracks up muddy hills where now washouts are forming. I don't even drive the ground when its wet and then I don't attempt to go up the steepest bank I can find. Who pays for these damages? I do. My ground also borders other neighbors ground, they have to pass through my ground to access theirs. And when you find those gates left open, you know someone has extended their privilge past.

I have been a hunter all my life, last few years not as much. I have always enjoyed having folks use the ground for the sport. And I am going to hate to turn away a couple guys who have used in the past that I think were a-plus outdoorsman, maybe I won't guess I will see if they show back up.

I'm not alone in this, more and more ranchers/farmers are having the same problems, seeing the same thing, road hunters, you probably don't even want me to get going on them. My property does not even border a road, matter of fact closest road to it is more than 1/2 mile away at the closest distance. But in past years I have been out there fixing fence and here I see a 4x4 going up a hill across the valley or driving across the pasture. Or after deer season I find fences cut with tracks coming from areas that would lead to near by roads.

Sure a few ruin it for the rest. How am I suppose to know who those few are? You tell me. I thought I knew in the past, thought I was decent judge of character, but I guess I wasn't. So with a lease, I know who will be out there for sure. Many of my neighbors have been doing it for a couple years and they are glad they went to it. They feel their leasors take more responsibility towards the ground and if they are willing to pay a small fee, they show that responsibility. And signing a paper accepting responsibility seems to help, because I have a feeling if you aren't willing to accept it you won't sign it.

So I am sorry for those who feel leasing is an end to hunting. Or turning it into a rich man's sport. I don't agree. I'm not sure as to yet what I will ask for the lease. I shot out a price to one guy who replied, I'm not out to get rich, just protect my ground.

I'm not into this outfitting and not going to lease to an outfitter, I prefer to give the opportunity to more than just a small group, do more or less a limited day deal so more can take advantage. I'm new to it, I am going off what others have done and seem to have success with and they have happy outdoorsman who keep coming back.

That's my 2 cents.

[Lenny]

I used to allow guys on the ground for free, then they would show up with a crew of 6 or more, drive all over hell on my ground wet or not, tearing up pasture, now there are washouts starting in those tracks. I even went out there one time and here is three guys I don't know from anywhere, asked them what the heck was going on, they said they had permission. From who? From a guy who had came up to the door over a year ago. I've had gates left open, pumps left on, trash left all over, so after 43 years of letting folks on for free, its over. So it was suggested to go this way to me, others felt they had better control on who is on their property and when

This is why you have leasing, it's not the rich people leasing up all the ground as others would have us believe. The truth is a sad few hunters have disrespected landowners to many times and it has led them to leasing. I'll agree it' sucks but for some people it's the only real option they have. I've lost ground due to it being sold to build homes, removed from public access but never due to leasing. Most times you will find the those who are most against leasing are the ones who have lost access because of it and usually there is more to it than "Someone with deep pockets leased it out from under us" Ask any landowner who leases their property and they will almost always give the same reasons quoted above. That or they flat out just need the extra income.

[obert]

I don't support leasing. In fact, we've had several discussions on this topic before and I usually say the same thing, "If you don't want leases to be the future of hunting, don't make them the present."

Lastly, we only have 1 sponsor - Cabela's. And you can see that we have worked that partnership to the advantage of the members. This forum isn't profitable nor is it intended to be.

Cabela's -- Trophy Properties, LLC

Little bit of irony here. Cabelas is in it to make money, leasing is to make money, everywhere someone is trying to make money out of our great tradition. I don't think you can point 1 thing out and say that it is ruining hunting or going to put an end to hunting as we know it. If anything, you can point to Greed as the end of hunting. Seems those of us who find the benefits of our hunting heritage are few and far between. I'm glad to live in Nebraska where it is still possible to knock on a door, trade some work for hunting privleges, hunt with a friend, enjoy the outdoors whether I kill something or not, and show respect to the land, the animal and others. But even in Nebraska that is taking a back seat to greed. Everyone wants a trophy with no work. They pay trespassing fees to get on good ground, they people to find animals for them, they pay people to trap animals for them to shoot. Leasing, outfitting, trespass fees, etc. etc. It's the future and I hate it. But to a point some of us are to blame, myself included. I'm fortunate to be able to knock on a door and be able to hunt, I really don't think my kids will have that chance. Golf anyone?

[obert]

And just to be clear, when I say greed I'm not meaning a landowner like Walking. In his incedent those who chose to disprespect him and his land are the ones who've been greedy. I know how bad it sucks to drive 20 miles to put cows back in at 3am b/c some j/a has cut the lock on the gate, or cut a fence or left a gate wide open. If we don't want Nebraska to be like SD is with birds then we need to hold these people responsible ourselves. Call them in, help the guy put the fence back up when you see something happen, and be the solution.

[OldBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by obert

...Golf anyone?

In order to be philosophically consistent, which doesn't seem to be one of their life goals, the people who object to hunting leases also should be opposed to privately owned golf courses charging greens fees.

"But my granpappy always hunted this area..."

When we owned hunting land, we constantly were plagued by trespassers and poachers and vandals. I took the easy way out; I sold the property. Now the jerks are someone else's problem.

(I agree with Obert, but his comment about golf was too good to pass up.)

[Chad]

You make some great points, Obert, but I disagree with the irony part. I'm not against landowners that lease or outfitters like Cabela's that make a profit from sales. What's wrong with selling a quality product or service at a fair price when there is a demand?

My objection is with us. I just think we hunters can be a bit short sighted in our pursuit to pay cash to lock up land. I vastly favor your approach of, "trading work for hunting privileges." And, that's really what the partnership with Cabela's is all about too, if you think about it. In the end, I think leases will probably hurt us, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. And I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the gear donations that Cabela's will be giving away to NEFGA members over the next year.

Originally Posted by obert

Cabela's -- Trophy Properties, LLC

Little bit of irony here. Cabelas is in it to make money, leasing is to make money, everywhere someone is trying to make money out of our great tradition. I don't think you can point 1 thing out and say that it is ruining hunting or going to put an end to hunting as we know it. If anything, you can point to Greed as the end of hunting. Seems those of us who find the benefits of our hunting heritage are few and far between. I'm glad to live in Nebraska where it is still possible to knock on a door, trade some work for hunting privleges, hunt with a friend, enjoy the outdoors whether I kill something or not, and show respect to the land, the animal and others. But even in Nebraska that is taking a back seat to greed. Everyone wants a trophy with no work. They pay trespassing fees to get on good ground, they people to find animals for them, they pay people to trap animals for them to shoot. Leasing, outfitting, trespass fees, etc. etc. It's the future and I hate it. But to a point some of us are to blame, myself included. I'm fortunate to be able to knock on a door and be able to hunt, I really don't think my kids will have that chance. Golf anyone?

[obert]

I meant the irony is with Cabelas. They sponsor a few different forums I'm on, inlcuding nefga. The part I find ironic is that the sell a lot of goods to those members, and they also sell quite a bit of land that is taking away opportunities from those same people. Which you're right, it's NOT their fault. They are finding ways to make money and the demand is obviously there. Same way that a landowner feels the need to lease b/c of disrespect of past events. That landowner has no reason to be fixing fence for free. (this can backfire though with leasing and make things worse) A legal lawabiding outfitter is not to blame either, he's making a dollar of someone who is too lazy to do it themselves. Us as a whole create our own bed to lie in. Not just in hunting, but a lot of things nowdays. That is why any eduction our nebraska forums can do, along with other groups such as NGPC, PF, etc. etc. can really be beneficial and bring things back to the way they used to be. The best way we can fight these things is to be respectful and ethical individuals these landowners WANT on their land, and teach our kids and new hunters the same. Our best weapon is example IMHO.

[obert]

I have to keep from using golf as a comparision. I'm sure are many landowners across the state that would give me permission to golf on their land. I might have to, if things keep going the way they do a days outing golfing will be way cheaper than a days outing of deer hunting.

nnnaaaannnaaannnaannaaa......
"I said the gophers, not the golfers!"

[bowhunterfishen]

I see a major problem in leasing. It is taking the average joes land away and making more and more difficult to get permission from landowners... What are we going to do after all the land is leased up? Where is the poor guy going to hunt? No one cares anymore, all everyone thinks of is where am I going to hunt this year. We used to be able to go out and gain permission from a lot of landowners now all of them are leasing it out to a bunch of businessman. Like obert said its really sad that more than likely our young kids today will not have the land to hunt in the future. And I dont know why everyone is slamming outfitters. Yeah there are a few outfitters that are rich and control alot of land, but I worked for an outfitter in Idaho and let me tell you what. These guys are true sportsman and care more about the sport than anyone I know of. So lets not slam all outfitters.

[littleben]

My family owns land in several counties, and we had the same problems as "old Guy". We granted permission to folks, but it seemed we had more tresspassers use it and abuse it. Did have some with permission abuse the oppurtunity also, but most were ok. Finally got feed up with it all and leased it to an outfitter. Now it is his problem to manage. The income form the leases is good, but that is not the reason we decided to lease, it was just getting tired of being abused.

[laneb]

Just curious...I'm not from NE so I don't know if this was ever discussed before, but has the NE Fish and Game ever looked at doing something similar to Montana's Block Management Program? I lived in MT for 3 yrs and the state would pay a fee to ranchers to 'open' up their land for hunters to use. You could go into any Fish and Game office and get maps/contact info for the ranchers, to include specifics about what game you could hunt on. The great thing about it was that the ranchers could specify exactly what the rules were (i.e. no more than 2 hunters per day, must sign-in, archery only etc.) so they could control how their land was used. In almost ever case, you had to sign in...usually identified with a Green, wooden box on the road beside the property (I loved seeing those green boxes ). Some were more strict than others, but there was ALOT of land that was open to the average hunter for free.

There may be good reason why that wouldn't work in NE, but I'll say that as a guy who loves to hunt, but didn't know anyone in the area or have alot of money to spend on outfitters, I loved the Block Management Program. I ended up getting 3 nice bucks in the 3 hunting seasons I was there...had it not been for the BMP, I doubt I would have done 1/2 the amout of hunting I did.

As far as leasing, I'm torn...it would be wonderful if there was a ton of free, public hunting land for us all to use, but that is not reality. If I was a landowner and had ignorant/selfish hunters abusing my property, I would certainly take steps to correct the situation.

[obert]

If I can find it there was an article where either SD or ND (I think it was SD) is going to install the same type of program. IMHO it's a great idea. Would be very beneficial in controlling populations as well IMO, but connecting hunters with landowners doesn't seem to be a priority here. Unless I'm missing something..

[Pro-Hunt]

Laneb; to answer your question.... Yes NE has a program similar. It is called the crp-map. The state pays farmers on top of the crp payments to allow access by foot. The only problem is it seems like the G&P does not actually go look at the land to see if it is good hunting ground or not. Since the feds are allowing the haying of crp more and more a lot of the crp-map ground is just short cut grass that has NO hunting value at all. I have also heard of some abuses to the system in that if you know someone in G&P's you can get your land enrolled even though it is not good land at all.
The crp-map could be much much better if it was actually looked at to see if it was good hunting ground or not. Also if the ground is hayed there should be no payment for access for that year.

[Alex T.]

Nebraska had a deer network. Landowners that wanted deer harvested would put their name/address in and the hunter could contact them. Think it lasted about 2 years and had only a few landowners(maybe 5 max.) on there at any given time. There is a program going on now(Path) for getting ground for youth to hunt. Looked into it for deer hunting for Brandon and it was so specific(mostly bow hunting only) that it didn't work for us and my screwed up work schedule at the time.

Alex

[obert]

We took ours out of the crp-map for a lot of the same situations walking and obg described. CRP-map is the crp boundry and not beyond, no one could seem to understand that. All the crp-map land around us can good for pheasant hunters, if not grazed or hayed. Previously hayed, burned, planted or grazed can be REALLY good. I like how they have the rotation of CRP now. There is an argument to be had that there shouldn't be a received payment for crp-map the years you use the CRP.

[Slack Jaw]

Originally Posted by bowhunterfishen

I see a major problem in leasing. It is taking the average joes land away and making more and more difficult to get permission from landowners... What are we going to do after all the land is leased up? Where is the poor guy going to hunt?

From the cab of a truck on a gravel road?