Stop calling it..........

[flatcoats]

no, it just comes down to when people have nothing constructive or even slightly informative to say anymore, they just resort to attacking the people in the coversation, or just write the whole thing off as inmaterial. I thiink thats more of whats taking place here.

[laughingwatr]

The killing of fenced livestock is how 99.999% of the population is able to eat meat. Animal rights people already don't like this so what difference does it make what you call it?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by laughingwatr

The killing of fenced livestock is how 99.999% of the population is able to eat meat. Animal rights people already don't like this so what difference does it make what you call it?

It is not passed off as hunting for crying out loud.

We as hunters are constantly being attacked by antis and the joke of fenced killing being passed off as hunting hurts us/hunters.
We will never get the support of anti-hunters but what we need is the support of people who are in limbo about their feelings towards hunting(which is the majority of the country). The fenced killing of livestock elk/deer etc helps to turn those type of people to support the anti-hunting side as they think this is actual hunting which should be obvious to everyone it is NOT but to the uninformed they think it is.

That is why it matters. I truly hope you can understand this!!

[laughingwatr]

I understand this and your reference to people in limbo is very valid. I also understand why people have issues with the fence and I respect those opinions. It's when people argue the downside of this type of harvest and use the anti's as justification for their arguement that I have a problem. Anti hunters are not rational beings that will just go away because you showed them how rational you are by damning high fence hunting. Do most hunters really think these anti hunters will take on some new cause because fenced hunting is banned. The way I see it, there is a lot more to loose by conceding the fence than there is by supporting whatever type of hunting you choose as long as it is legal. The people you are trying to please don't care how you hunt, to them it is all bad.

The private property rights thing is also a huge issue that most people will never understand. The US is always moving closer to a socialist gov't and any loss of property rights just puts us closer to this. I keep hearing that we need to ban a landowner from killing his own livestock on his own propety because he calls it something you don't like.

I really believe that this issue would lose a lot of steam if hunters stoped talking about it.

[Hunter]

Like I said in my previous post I know the antis will never change but those in "limbo" most certainly can be swayed one way or the other. The high fence killing being portrayed as hunting will help to sway those in limbo to go the antis way.

I don't care if these places are eliminated or not if they would not be passed off as hunting.

If a person wants to go shoot some pen raised birds in training his dog there is nothing wrong with that if he doesn't try to say he went 'hunting'.
If someone wants to go shoot an elk, deer or whatever and say they killed a livestock elk, deer or whatever that is fine but for dang sure don't say you went 'hunting'!!!

Call it what it is and I have no problem with it; call it something it is not that hurts the thing I am the most passionate about(hunting) and then I have a big problem with it.

The owners of these places fight for it so hard to be called hunting because they know if it was called what it actually is the money tree would dry up.

[Red]

Originally Posted by muddy river

What's wrong with canned hunts?

Yours Truely,

Guys that sit in a heated truck, watching a patch of woods, waiting for a deer to run out so they can lean over the hood of the truck and sniper it with a rifle from 300 yards away and pose with it like it was a hard earned trophy, and then proceed to have it stuffed and mounted on their wall to remind them everyday of that glorious hunt.

Oh C'mon, I sit in the pick up turned off and usually lean over the door...

I do, agree, canned hunting is not hunting, and I'd rather see a kid pull a real deer hunt on his xbox than have a story for all his friends "Then he turned on the feeder and they came in by the dozens!"

[fearnofish]

I think it will eventually die off by itself. I do not know any people that would step foot into any of these ranches. It will get boring for the guy who does it or maybe it will not. But it cannot be called hunting, they should call it guarenteed freezer meat.

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Magnus; which is it.... do you kill livestock or are you in the business or have friends/family in the business?

It is only these people who ever stick up for it. Don't lie as it is obvious it is one of the above mentioned.

See, it's when people forget how to engage their brain and make stupid accusations like "since you have a different opinion on canned hunting than I do, you MUST be connected to an operation like this somehow" that people get pissed off then the forum mods end up handing out infractions/warnings/etc.
So I'm going to answer you with this...nope, I'm not connected. I just don't see it as a big deal. If you don't like it, don't do it. Otherwise, just shut your mouth and let people do what they want. It's legal, it doesn't hurt you, it doesn't interfere with your righteous hunting efforts. Man up, rub a little dirt on your wounds and let people run their businesses.

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I don't care if these places are eliminated or not if they would not be passed off as hunting.

To you, no...I'm sure it's not hunting. To a city boy from LA or Jersey or Miami, this sure as hell is hunting. Take a 12 year old on a guaranteed elk hunt, and he's hooked.

And what you're ignoring is that you're not exactly hunting in a fenced in area the size of your back yard. It's not 100' of chain link keeping the animal in...these are acres upon acres upon acres of fenced in areas. If you miss the shot, the deer/elk is STILL going to get away. Is it going to run across the state? No...but are you going to have to hunt it again? Definately.

[Hunter]

Whatever; you make no sense and have no good reason for them. I asked a simple question; there was no personal attack like you did to me just now. I am done responding to you since you are going into personal attack mode.

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Whatever; you make no sense and have no good reason for them. I asked a simple question; there was no personal attack like you did to me just now. I am done responding to you since you are going into personal attack mode.

Read the post. I answered your question. And I have you a good reason for them.

[fearnofish]

Magnus you are funny man. I still think we could just call the canned hunting, The Zoo Outfitters, and we could put a train with a whistle around the fenceline? That would be cool. NO in all reality canned hunting is humiliating and wrong so why even give these guys the time of day discussing it because 9 times out of 10 the guys that deffend it are the guys that run them. So lets not even give them the satisfaction of arguing , and I have made my name up for it. Zoo Hunts and you get a free train ride after

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

Yeah? Then that other 1 person out of 10 is a capitalist who sees it as a perfectly legal business, and thus doesn't warrant being shut down or pissed and moaned about.

[packster]

Canned hunting is just another fad thing to go after like smoking. I don't think AK-47's should be allowed for deer hunting either! But guess what someone just choked on there favorite beverage trying to get to the keyboard to oppose what I just said. We need to quit seperating the masses and learn to respect others and not segregate.

[fearnofish]

A capatalist? I am 26 years old and know of not one hunter who thinks off canned hunting as a sport. Like I said I do not see the point in arguing this subject because it will not stay around long. It will get shut down and that day will be a good day for real fair chase hunters. Canned hunts is not fair chase it is guarenteed kill. Which in my eyes is flat out wrong and I think everyone who is for it probably knows deep down inside that it is wrong and the only reason it is around is to make a profit.

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

Precisely...that's what businesses do...they make a profit. Hence capitalism.

If you let the government step in and shut these operations down, you're going to give the freaks in PETA the spark they need to get in the government's ear about shutting down other activities we enjoy. Imagine this...the government comes in and shuts down high fence operations under the premise that there is no "fair chase" involved in the sport. Now we've got a "fair chase" precedent that the eco-freaks and PETA goons are going to call on the government to follow. Next thing you know, food plots are going to be banned because we're baiting the deer in. Fishing at Two Rivers will be banned because there are auto feeders there. Nobody will be able to use bait to lure a black bear within bow range anymore. Don't even think about chumming the waters around you anymore to bring fish in.

If they're going to go out of business, let them do it on their own through crappy business practices. The government is not the dance partner sportsmen want for this tango.

[jimbosan]

Ted Nugent does it all the time.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by jimbosan

Ted Nugent does it all the time.

While I think Ted does a great job speaking out for hunting I will NEVER watch his show just because he does kill livestock behind fences.

[jimbosan]

To each his own!

[fearnofish]

I agree I think Teds shows are terrible and the places and ways he hunts are just flat out boring, but he does speak out and has a good voice in hunting. Ted is funny but really doesnt have a fun hunting show to watch.