Canned Hunting

[littleben]

Lets keep the discussion going without the emotion.
As everyone knows, hunting of any and all kinds is under attack by the anti hunting groups. Probably the easiest type of hunting to attack is the captive critter. For hunters to join in on the attack of canned or captive hunting just plays into the hands of the anti groups. Even though canned hunts are not your bag or maybe no elses on this forum, to join in the condemnation of them is really to condemn a type of hunting. It really doens't matter if you call it hunting or livestock harvesting, cause the anti groups call it hunting and have targeted it as somthing to stop. What do you think they will go after after the captive hunting is shutdown??

I am considerably less than perfect, as so I am less inclined to condemn other types of hunting, cause I don't think I am good enough to sit in judgement. Again I have personal experience with two captive outfitters who run deer hunts. I have not hunted there but I know the guys and have seen the enclosures. The deer are wild, were bought from the state,
(not Nebraska) and the management of the herd is directed by a bioligist. They run extensive camera surveys twice a year to see what is there cause the hills, gullys and trees are so thick that you hardly ever see the deer. There is no guarentee of success, only a good effort. A lot of people who come there are guests of a company and this might be their first time hunting, so now we are introducing new people to the sport. Some come back next year, some catch the bug and start hunting on their own closer to home. I am sure captive hunting runs the gamout from what is described on this thread as a pen, to what I have seen, that for all practical purposes is fair chase.

Stop canned hunting cause it isn't fair chase
Stop rifle hunting cause it isn't a fair contest between hunter and animal
Stop hunting on public ground cause the public shouldn't have to support this barbaric activity.
Stop archery hunting becasue the animal suffers before dying
Stop people from walking in the woods cause they might disturb a critter.

My opionion, we all have different approaches to hunting and even hunting ethics, I don't think it serves hunting in general for us to focus on the differences rather than the commonality. We need a united front to keep hunting.

thanks for reading this, I have spoken my opionion, I am done on the subject, and respect your right to dissagree.

[Pro-Hunt]

It is NOT "hunting" and should have NEVER EVER been portrayed as such!!!!!!!!!!!

Hunting involves FAIR chase which livestock killing is not!!!!!!!!!!!

I am against banning ANY type of HUNTING. The farce of penned livestock killing is not hunting!!!! Never has been NEVER will be!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pro-Hunt]

Lil Ben; are you or do personally have ties to anyone in the canned killing business?
Don't lie!!!!

The only people I have seen stick up for this farce is people in the business. Those lazy slobs who actually pay to do it almost always stay out of the argument because of embarrasment.

[flatcoats]

i agree that true high fence operations (maybe in excess of 10000 acres) should not be banned, but like pro-hunt said......it isnt hunting AT ALL and should never have any association with real hunting hunting. and i also dont agree that we should come together on this. maybe hunting in general wouldn't get such a bad rap from the general public if high fences disappeared. how can you defend the biggest downfall in our sport? its just another way to turn hunting into a money game for the rich.

[obert]

maybe hunting in general wouldn't get such a bad rap from the general public if high fences disappeared. how can you defend the biggest downfall in our sport? its just another way to turn hunting into a money game for the rich.

I share these same thoughts. Prohunt might be onto something too. The supporters of canned Gentrying IMHO does way more harm to hunting than good.

[littleben]

[quote=littleben;129196] Again I have personal experience with two captive outfitters who run deer hunts. I have not hunted there but I know the guys and have seen the enclosures. The deer are wild, were bought from the state,

[yellowlab]

I think both ways are acceptable

[laughingwatr]

I have an outfitting business that I run on my own ranch so I have some experience in the hunting business. Right now the market is saturated with hunt options for about any species and it is very hard to book clients with legitimate hunts because there are so many low dollar, high volume outfitters. This is particularly the case in Nebraska because of our liberal permits. The high fence operations face the same economic issues. To stay in the hunting business you need to keep a decent percentage of repeats or referals because it costs so much to book a client. These canned hunts that everyone keeps referring to occur very infrequently and generally don't last because even the high fence hunters have some threshold of ethics that they don't like to cross. I've had several clients hunt high fence operations and with the exception of a place in Canada they have all been good experiences for the clients however they acknowledged that it was high fence. If you don't like it fine, but I'm calling BS on most accusations of tame deer or whatever because I would be surprised if very many people on here have even been on a high fence operation let alone hunted one. If so, please share your experience and the name of the operation so we can avoid it or possibly shut it down. Of course I'm assuming hogs don't count, right?

[bowhunterfishen]

[havent hunted on a high fence operation but i have guided hunts with a outfitter in idaho and went to a high fence operation and stood right by the fence , what happened a 400 class bull walked right up to us. according to the outfitter I was with this bull was known as the 100,000 $$ Bull. This operation didnt last long, but it humiliates our sport and will be another thing for anti hunters to preach about. SO LETS STOP DEFENDING CANNED HUNTS LITTLE BEN BECAUSE ANY HONEST HUNTER KNOWS THAT ITS A JOKE!! LIKE PRO HUNT SAID "CANNED HUNTS HAS NEVER BEEN HUNTING AND NEVER WILL BE!!! HOWS THAT FOR EMOTION.

[bowhunterfishen]

It doesnt matter if the deer are wild, they cannot escape so that takes away the fair chase fact. Have you ever hunted deer? They run from danger , now with a fence there what happens? They have to stop, so the hunter knows the animal is still in the area. Now real hunting does not have that , buck winds you they are gone and usually you will not see that buck again unless you have a fence to trap them inside your land?? I am not a perfect sportsman and dont claim to be , but I will stand up for what is right for our sport and what will hurt it

[Pro-Hunt]

I know of one person who actually went and killed an elk at one of these farces.
He actually was not even gonna tell me about it as he knows I am a HUNTER. His wife though didn't quite understand what he did and blurted out if he had shown me the pictures of his elk 'hunt'. I saw the deer in the headlights look on his face when he said he hadn't. I asked him if he went to Colorado or some other state.
He then figured out he had to tell the truth which he (at least to me) did not act like he was to proud of.
His story(which I some what believe) went like this.........
His dad bought him, his brother and the dad a 'livestock kill'(he called it a 'H' word; which we all know is not correct).
He did say that it actually wasn't much of a 'hunt' as they basically drove around and picked out which one they wanted to kill based on how much money it was for the size of the antlers. He said he picked out a smaller one to save his dad some money but his brother picked out a nice big one.
He knew without me ever having talked about my opinion of canned killing that it was not something to be proud of!!!! Maybe around other people he talked differently but around me he truly seemed kind of embarrassed about it.

I know one other person that bought an elk from one of these elk farms. He is just getting into hunting thanks to me and he loves it. He did NOT however do the farce of going and killing it and trying to pass it off as anything else other than livestock. He had them kill it and butcher it just like a cow. He wanted elk meat and could not go on real hunt so he at least did not play make believe!!! This place sells the farce of livestock killing as 'hunting' big time but yet they can go out and kill and butcher an elk any time they want with no wait. It seems to me they can not be all that wild and hard to get if you can call them up one day and order what you want; then go pick it up packaged and ready to go within a day or two.

If people want to raise elk, deer or whatever and sell the meat just like a cow, pig or sheep I have no problem with that but there is a line that should not be crossed when you try to pass it off as anything other than what it is......livestock!!!!

[obert]

Guaranteed hunt=what a bunch of bs. If you're gauranteed an animal then you just as well buy the meat and be done with it. Go ahead and buy yourself an animal to satisfy you're shortomings, but dont' act like you've done something special. Some men are men and some pretend to be men.

[elkstalkr]

Originally Posted by obert

Go ahead and buy yourself an animal to satisfy you're shortomings, but dont' act like you've done something special. Some men are men and some pretend to be men.

I will add this and be done with this thread.

Most hunters who hunt "canned hunts" also hunt free-ranging animals. THEY DO BOTH, and they know the difference. Furthermore, these hunters are very forthcoming by admitting the animals were killed "behind a fence".

Fenced hunting is not for me, I have been on a couple and readily admit it and also admit there isn't much of a challenge to it. I will agree pounding your chest because you killed a 180 class buck on a canned hunt is ridiculous. What I find more ridiculous is people will pay $20,000 to do it!

[Alex T.]

What I find more ridiculous is people will pay $20,000 to do it

Some people got more money than brains.

Alex

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

How many of you up on your high horses have ever fished for trout at Two Rivers? How many of you have ever caught at catfish at Catfish Lake? How many of you have let your kids catch a trout out of the horse tank at the Boat, Sport and Travel shows?

[Immortality]

Ok I'm going to throw in here too. For disclosure I've never been on a fenced hunt or known anyone that has been on one. I do see a difference between a canned hunt (aka livestock kill) and a guided hunt on a 10,000 acre fenced in ranch. I'm not a deer hunter but I can't imagine many deer have a 10K acre range. I would think that would be just as much a fair chase hunt as a wild buck that never goes outside his 160 acre home turf. If the hunt isn't guaranteed and the animals have sufficient range I don't see it being unethical. Sure the guides have very good knowledge of where the big bucks are but if I had a guided hunt on public land I would expect good knowledge from my guide as well.

On the other hand, the livestock kill "hunts" should never be considered hunting. These are the ones that are going to give all hunters problems with PETA and friends.

I would propose, and I realize that each state would have to implement it, that the state agencies define the difference between the two. If the state is giving the permits to operate and selling the game to these operations, they should be able to regulate them and call them what they really are, guided private hunts or livestock kills. This would go a long way in removing the perception that all fenced hunts are livestock kills.

Just my 2 cents.

[OldBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

Some people got more money than brains.

Alex

Until they put in their "two cents worth." Then it's a tie.

Alex, when do we get to try the "money" part, simply for comparision purposes, of course?

[flatcoats]

Originally Posted by magnusthebigbrownlab

How many of you up on your high horses have ever fished for trout at Two Rivers? How many of you have ever caught at catfish at Catfish Lake? How many of you have let your kids catch a trout out of the horse tank at the Boat, Sport and Travel shows?

nope, never. and no one is parading around that they are the ultimate fisherman. most of those operations are here to do two things, offer the young a high percentage chance to catch fish and get pumped about it, and to give older people the chance to catch some fish and feel young again.

plus, those fish didnt have to bite a hook. but i dont think the bucks had a choice, they had to bite the bullet

[Bass-Assassin]

Canned hunting is for people that don't know how to hunt and don't respect the thrill of the chase. It's easier, plain and simple. Has anyone tracked, or ran into a trophy buck that just happens to run onto someone else's land that you can't hunt? Well in a canned hunt if you see that buck, you will get that buck, regardless. You can track it for days if you want, and you will always know what land it will be on. In a non canned atmosphere that buck would be as good as gone.

[lanenebraska]

Well, if yer gonna go after those freezer fillers behind the High Fences. Yer really gonna want to have the very latest camouflage for livestock killing.

And here it is:



: SM_SS_banana:

tide