Question of the day.......

Alex T. · 08-01-2009, 02:43 PM

After seeing the recent musky pics I got to wondering how many have been stocked into Wagon Train. So,I looked up the stocking totals and see that 3231 have been stocked over the years. Now,I got to wondering how many Zorinsky has had and looked that up,11367,over the years. It seems to me that both lakes are fairly alike but yet Wagon Train seems to retain the muskies better and actually have some grow and prosper while they seem to be a lost cause at Zorinsky. This is probably more for the fish guru dude with the new job title.........Why is that??

Alex

Jump n Fish · 08-01-2009, 03:44 PM

Omaha has more poachers?

Val Didrichsons · 08-01-2009, 03:55 PM

I want to know how many of those muskie are still in WT, given the number that have been caught/shot "downstream." A thousand? A hundred? Ten?

Slack Jaw · 08-01-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex T.

After seeing the recent musky pics I got to wondering how many have been stocked into Wagon Train. So,I looked up the stocking totals and see that 3231 have been stocked over the years. Now,I got to wondering how many Zorinsky has had and looked that up,11367,over the years. It seems to me that both lakes are fairly alike but yet Wagon Train seems to retain the muskies better and actually have some grow and prosper while they seem to be a lost cause at Zorinsky. This is probably more for the fish guru dude with the new job title.........Why is that??

Alex

So thats where they were catching them at. I couldn't tell because of the blurred out pics.Internet scouting really does work.

Chad · 08-01-2009, 04:06 PM

The musky that have been stocked in Zorinsky in recent years have really just been an afterthought. Two small stockings to throw a surprise or two in the reservoir. I don't think the commission is really trying to establish a musky fishery there. In the last 10 years, only 380 have been stocked in Zorinsky. All the other stocking took place in the early - mid 90's and were Tiger Muskies (Musky/Pike cross), which are sterile.

Now Wagon Train is a different story. They were/are trying to establish a musky fishery there. In the past 10 years they have stocked 2,681.

Realmwalker · 08-01-2009, 06:03 PM

I have now studied and fished both lakes and am convinced that "Z" would have a better range of habitat and even spawning options for Muskies than Wagon Train.

The big thing with Wagon Train is that they have been stocking it since 2002, while Z has only had two stockings the last three of years. And now, because of (what I consider) an inaccurate assessment they are stopping the stocking of muskies in Z.

I hope that they change their mind and continue to stock muskies even with them starting to stock wipers this fall.

GreenCanoe · 08-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slack Jaw

.Internet scouting really does work.

Sure does! That is almost always how I decide where to fish and what to fish for.

Nebraska Game and Parks Commission - Fishing Guide - Stocking Reports
Nebraska Game and Parks Commission - Public Waters Guide

Now back to topic!

May I point out that WT requires a park permit and also a drive (for most people) to get to, whereas the Z is literally "in town" and available to any yay-hoo with a fishing pole. While the lakes themselves may be similar, their accessibility and the type of fisherman that fishes them are quite different. These factors may have a much greater influence than the physical properties of the lakes.

Alex T. · 08-01-2009, 08:53 PM

I bet Wagon Train gets more fishing pressure(I know it was packed when I was there;way more than Zorinsky has been) than Zorinsky does nowadays except for the guys tossin' crap on the bottom waiting for anything to hit. I also looked up Timber Point since ADV said he was going there and that little waterhole has had alot of musky put in which ,to me, doesn't make any sense whatsoever if 250+acre waterbodies aren't any good for sustaining them.

Just trying to understand the thought process as to what gets stocked with what.

Alex

LincolnLunger · 08-01-2009, 09:27 PM

there are atleast 6 muskies in wagon train

a 38"
a 33"
a 29.5"
a 29"
a 28"
and a 25"

Hooligan · 08-01-2009, 11:57 PM

Muskies won't reliably spawn in either location. DB has chimed in on this before, I'll try to find it.

Realmwalker · 08-02-2009, 03:15 AM

Yes, Hooligan, you are right, the Muskies will not reliably spawn in either location...but they both have locations and structure in them that are ideal spawning habitat, and Z appears to have more of it.

Even in Minnesota lakes, most muskie populations do not reliably spawn...but it is important to have these locations because they are vital, instinctual locations that muskies will gravitate to during early spring. The key here is having the environment that is most likely to generate natural muskie activity.

As far as sustaining a muskie population on lakes of Wagon Train and Z's size, you can get away with doing it with far fewer numbers that you would expect, even if a few are getting washed down the spillways. This is especially true since they are releasing 12" fish as opposed to fingerlings or fry. Great muskie lakes in WI and MN usually have only about 2 or maybe 3 adult muskies per acre. That is why the stocking numbers for Wagon Train appear to be about right as part of an on going program for muskies, even when facotring in those harvested/died/lost down Salt Creek.

It is also why I raise an eyebrow at the survey conclusions regarding muskie success at Z. To "only" survey two fish out of 380 stocked over two years in 250 acres of water sounds about right to me...especially with how notoriously difficult it is to survey muskies using traditional methods.

Give Z stocking numbers similar to Wagon Train and I would guarantee that it would post similar, if not better overall results. Daryl, if you are watching this thread, could you PM me and let me know if muskie stocking on Z can be funded privately?

NEHONKERS · 08-02-2009, 05:05 AM

A good number of real quality muskies & eyes were lost in high water in 07 & 08.

thedarkarcher · 08-03-2009, 08:30 AM

i know a guy who landed a muskie this spring at Z and i fished it once this year and my brother had a follow to boatside. the whole spill way thing is interesting, i sat down there last year and watched muskie after muskie come down the tube. i think WT is shaping up to be a great muskie lake. i consider a strike or a follow a successful outing, so i've had 2 good outings out of 3

bassinoutwest · 08-03-2009, 08:42 AM

great thread for the 'evidence' file.

good explanation as to why it's so difficult/challenging to manage any body of water for 'us' anglers.

Folks who want quality filets. folks who want quantity.
Folks who want quality fishing...folks who want trophy opportunities...
folks who want to catch unique species

one group has asked and apparently successfully plead their case for wipers to be stocked in Z.

Might have something to do with the decision to discontinue Muskies? that and the cost to produce those Esox...then again, might not.

Chad · 08-03-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassinoutwest

Might have something to do with the decision to discontinue Muskies?

Discontinue Muskies? I thought private dollars had saved the program a year back. I hadn't heard it was going south again.

bassinoutwest · 08-03-2009, 12:29 PM

chad, to clarify, one of the earlier posts in this thread seemed to suggest that NGPC has stopped stocking muskie on a regular basis in Z.

My reference was only to Z and not the entire NE Muskie program. I could be wrong as I only referenced a previous entry...

Chad · 08-03-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassinoutwest

chad, to clarify, one of the earlier posts in this thread seemed to suggest that NGPC has stopped stocking muskie on a regular basis in Z.

My reference was only to Z and not the entire NE Muskie program. I could be wrong as I only referenced a previous entry...

Gotcha. See, I never thought they were actually stocking skies in Z on a regular basis. I thought it was more-or-less a few bonus fish, that really wouldn't ever amount to a population, but would be likely to show up on the end of a 10-year-old's crappie line. Thirty seconds later, he would get spooled... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... snap.

"What was that, Dad?"

"I have no clue, son, but it was BIG whatever it was."

And boom, you just made a life-long angler. A kid that believes in the mystery of what might be about to bite.

08-01-2009, 02:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Alex T. Alex T. is kinda diggin' the brown stained waders Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: under the doors of a laydown blind Certified Youth Fishing Instructor Posts: 5,265 Thanks: 0 Thanked 591 Times in 393 Posts	Question of the day....... After seeing the recent musky pics I got to wondering how many have been stocked into Wagon Train. So,I looked up the stocking totals and see that 3231 have been stocked over the years. Now,I got to wondering how many Zorinsky has had and looked that up,11367,over the years. It seems to me that both lakes are fairly alike but yet Wagon Train seems to retain the muskies better and actually have some grow and prosper while they seem to be a lost cause at Zorinsky. This is probably more for the fish guru dude with the new job title.........Why is that?? Alex __________________ MUD........ A SQUISHY KINDA FUN

08-01-2009, 03:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jump n Fish Jump n Fish is dreamin of clear rivers and big spots Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Laurel, MS Posts: 1,331 Thanks: 613 Thanked 463 Times in 216 Posts	Omaha has more poachers? __________________ We accidentally replaced your heart with a baked potato. You have about three seconds to live.

08-01-2009, 03:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Val Didrichsons Val Didrichsons is putting together a select team for a highly classified assault on a new pond. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lincoln Posts: 430 Thanks: 42 Thanked 119 Times in 68 Posts	I want to know how many of those muskie are still in WT, given the number that have been caught/shot "downstream." A thousand? A hundred? Ten? __________________ "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn. ~Chuck Clark

08-01-2009, 04:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chad Chad is finished with #1 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Gone Fishin' Posts: 7,474 Thanks: 366 Thanked 466 Times in 208 Posts Blog Entries: 15	The musky that have been stocked in Zorinsky in recent years have really just been an afterthought. Two small stockings to throw a surprise or two in the reservoir. I don't think the commission is really trying to establish a musky fishery there. In the last 10 years, only 380 have been stocked in Zorinsky. All the other stocking took place in the early - mid 90's and were Tiger Muskies (Musky/Pike cross), which are sterile. Now Wagon Train is a different story. They were/are trying to establish a musky fishery there. In the past 10 years they have stocked 2,681. __________________

08-01-2009, 06:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Realmwalker Realmwalker is looking for NE muskies! Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Omaha Posts: 86 Thanks: 34 Thanked 57 Times in 19 Posts	I have now studied and fished both lakes and am convinced that "Z" would have a better range of habitat and even spawning options for Muskies than Wagon Train. The big thing with Wagon Train is that they have been stocking it since 2002, while Z has only had two stockings the last three of years. And now, because of (what I consider) an inaccurate assessment they are stopping the stocking of muskies in Z. I hope that they change their mind and continue to stock muskies even with them starting to stock wipers this fall. __________________ To catch list: Long-nose Gar Short-nose Gar Paddlefish Shovelnose Sturgeon Wiper (believe it or not...lol) Rainbow Trout Steelhead Trout Cutthroat Trout These are the major game fish of Nebraska that I have yet to catch in my lifetime.

08-01-2009, 08:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
Alex T. Alex T. is kinda diggin' the brown stained waders Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: under the doors of a laydown blind Certified Youth Fishing Instructor Posts: 5,265 Thanks: 0 Thanked 591 Times in 393 Posts	I bet Wagon Train gets more fishing pressure(I know it was packed when I was there;way more than Zorinsky has been) than Zorinsky does nowadays except for the guys tossin' crap on the bottom waiting for anything to hit. I also looked up Timber Point since ADV said he was going there and that little waterhole has had alot of musky put in which ,to me, doesn't make any sense whatsoever if 250+acre waterbodies aren't any good for sustaining them. Just trying to understand the thought process as to what gets stocked with what. Alex __________________ MUD........ A SQUISHY KINDA FUN

08-01-2009, 09:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
LincolnLunger LincolnLunger is anxiously awaiting Spring walleyes! Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: southeastern nebraska Posts: 2,170 Thanks: 969 Thanked 589 Times in 369 Posts	there are atleast 6 muskies in wagon train a 38" a 33" a 29.5" a 29" a 28" and a 25" __________________ Shut Up And Fish! ><((((((((()*< ~--------------

08-01-2009, 11:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hooligan Hooligan is just biding his time. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,366 Thanks: 93 Thanked 543 Times in 325 Posts	Muskies won't reliably spawn in either location. DB has chimed in on this before, I'll try to find it. __________________ "If people don't occasionally walk away from you shaking their heads, you're doing something wrong." John Gierach

08-02-2009, 03:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
Realmwalker Realmwalker is looking for NE muskies! Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Omaha Posts: 86 Thanks: 34 Thanked 57 Times in 19 Posts	Yes, Hooligan, you are right, the Muskies will not reliably spawn in either location...but they both have locations and structure in them that are ideal spawning habitat, and Z appears to have more of it. Even in Minnesota lakes, most muskie populations do not reliably spawn...but it is important to have these locations because they are vital, instinctual locations that muskies will gravitate to during early spring. The key here is having the environment that is most likely to generate natural muskie activity. As far as sustaining a muskie population on lakes of Wagon Train and Z's size, you can get away with doing it with far fewer numbers that you would expect, even if a few are getting washed down the spillways. This is especially true since they are releasing 12" fish as opposed to fingerlings or fry. Great muskie lakes in WI and MN usually have only about 2 or maybe 3 adult muskies per acre. That is why the stocking numbers for Wagon Train appear to be about right as part of an on going program for muskies, even when facotring in those harvested/died/lost down Salt Creek. It is also why I raise an eyebrow at the survey conclusions regarding muskie success at Z. To "only" survey two fish out of 380 stocked over two years in 250 acres of water sounds about right to me...especially with how notoriously difficult it is to survey muskies using traditional methods. Give Z stocking numbers similar to Wagon Train and I would guarantee that it would post similar, if not better overall results. Daryl, if you are watching this thread, could you PM me and let me know if muskie stocking on Z can be funded privately? __________________ To catch list: Long-nose Gar Short-nose Gar Paddlefish Shovelnose Sturgeon Wiper (believe it or not...lol) Rainbow Trout Steelhead Trout Cutthroat Trout These are the major game fish of Nebraska that I have yet to catch in my lifetime.

08-02-2009, 05:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
NEHONKERS NEHONKERS has no status. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lincoln Posts: 165 Thanks: 4 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	A good number of real quality muskies & eyes were lost in high water in 07 & 08.

08-03-2009, 08:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
thedarkarcher thedarkarcher is thinking inside the box, the tackle box. 2008 Buck Bash Archery Division Champion Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lincoln Posts: 3,373 Thanks: 2,511 Thanked 1,410 Times in 642 Posts	i know a guy who landed a muskie this spring at Z and i fished it once this year and my brother had a follow to boatside. the whole spill way thing is interesting, i sat down there last year and watched muskie after muskie come down the tube. i think WT is shaping up to be a great muskie lake. i consider a strike or a follow a successful outing, so i've had 2 good outings out of 3 __________________ I still wish I could breathe underwater. -Ned Plimpton/Kingsley Zissou

08-03-2009, 08:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
bassinoutwest bassinoutwest has no status. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 811 Thanks: 69 Thanked 269 Times in 164 Posts	great thread for the 'evidence' file. good explanation as to why it's so difficult/challenging to manage any body of water for 'us' anglers. Folks who want quality filets. folks who want quantity. Folks who want quality fishing...folks who want trophy opportunities... folks who want to catch unique species one group has asked and apparently successfully plead their case for wipers to be stocked in Z. Might have something to do with the decision to discontinue Muskies? that and the cost to produce those Esox...then again, might not.

08-03-2009, 12:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
bassinoutwest bassinoutwest has no status. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 811 Thanks: 69 Thanked 269 Times in 164 Posts	chad, to clarify, one of the earlier posts in this thread seemed to suggest that NGPC has stopped stocking muskie on a regular basis in Z. My reference was only to Z and not the entire NE Muskie program. I could be wrong as I only referenced a previous entry...

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