Trash fish, or sport fish?

[Mako]

So, after reading some recent posts (Mo**** was back again, the LMB in Japan thread, and the gar threads), I've started wondering, what do people think are trash fish?

Are gar really trash fish? Some people consider them sport fish, and I don't know that they reproduce and take over a lake like carp and white perch do (no, I haven't really researched this but just don't know of any lakes around here that have been overwhelmed with gar).

Are white perch and carp trash fish? If so, is it because they take over lakes? My vote here would be yes.

And are Largemouth Bass trash fish to people who love catching 'gills, because they eat them? If the argument is no, they are fun to catch and they help the 'gill population from being stunted, can't the same be said for gar?

I know there are some that consider predators of the LMB as being trash fish too.

How about drum?

What do you think makes a "trash fish," a "trash fish?" Any non-native species?

[DingerFlinger]

Some people have their own version of trash fish. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only "trashy fish" I could come up with. Fishing is fun no matter what the species.

[holdemplyer]

I don't consider gar trash fish. Gar do not ruin watersheds. Gar are not an invasive species to our waters. If gar are the only fish present, it isn't because gar preyed upon the other fish. It's because the water quaility is poor, and the gar can tolerate that more than most species.

Carp, of all species are trash fish. White perch are a trash fish.

At the same time, that doesn't mean all "invasive" species are not sport fish.

Trout, are not native to this state, and therefore, are an invasive species.

Invasive Fish species of Nebraska

Alewife
American eel
American shad
Bighead carp
Brook silverside
Brook trout
Brown trout
Bullhead minnow
Common carp
Cutthroat trout
Gizzard shad
Golden shiner
Goldfish
Grass carp
Ninespine stickleback
Plains topminnow
Rainbow smelt
Rainbow trout
Rio Grande sucker
Rudd
Silver carp
Smallmouth bass
Tadpole madtom
Western mosquito fish
White perch
Yellow perch All information, unless otherwise noted, is courtesy of the Nonindigenous Aquatic Species (NAS) information resource for the United States Geological Survey.

[Hooligan]

Originally Posted by holdemplyer

I don't consider gar trash fish. Gar do not ruin watersheds. Gar are not an invasive species to our waters. If gar are the only fish present, it isn't because gar preyed upon the other fish. It's because the water quaility is poor, and the gar can tolerate that more than most species.

Carp, of all species are trash fish. White perch are a trash fish.

At the same time, that doesn't mean all "invasive" species are not sport fish.

Trout, are not native to this state, and therefore, are an invasive species.

Good points, list etc, all.
It would go to note that Brown Trout aren't native to the US at all. They're an introduced species. For that matter, Rainbows aren't a native species in CO, they've actually managed to place other species in the endangered category. Oh, and Great Lakes Steelhead? They're not really stealhead because they aren't pelagic. How about wipers? They don't belong here either, nor do muskies. They're all invasive to NE, really.
We've managed to screw up more fishing than we realize over the years. There's a great thing now, though, that we have. It's called knowledge. I'd be willing to bet that we wouldn't have a lot of the fish we do now spread as far and wide as they are.
/rantoff
Good post, Mako, really. Makes you sort of think about what is and what isn't.

[Outdoor_Joe_26]

Very good question.....

I consider "trash fish" to be any fish that gets out of hand to the point that the NGPC or the DNR has to kill of the lake and start over again. Examples of this are/were the stunted yellow/white bass at Cunningham, yellow bass and carp at Anita and 12-Mile, and carp at Icaria. However in areas that "trout is king" I've heard of lakes being killed off because of too many Northern Pike. They are by no means trash fish in my book!

I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I love to catch carp, and gar, but I'd rather keep them out of a lake if it meant catching bigger and more bass and catfish!

[Ty Stromquist]

I could almost say in some private lakes I frequent that bass are a trash fish since they have totally taken over the lake and become stunted beyond belief.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Outdoor_Joe_26

... in areas that "trout is king" I've heard of lakes being killed off because of too many Northern Pike. They are by no means trash fish in my book!

I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I love to catch carp, and gar, but I'd rather keep them out of a lake if it meant catching bigger and more bass and catfish!

You bring up another point. I think the definition of a trash fish is region specific. In MN where northerns overpopulate, eat everything, and get stunted in a small lake they are considered trash fish. I guess to define what a trash fish is you have to think about what your favorite species to target is and then what species negatively affects your desired fish's environment. I haven't talked to anyone that said carp aren't fun to catch, but when you think about how they directly affect your favorite bass pond, they are put on the top of the trash list.

[Hooligan]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You bring up another point. I think the definition of a trash fish is region specific. In MN where northerns overpopulate, eat everything, and get stunted in a small lake they are considered trash fish. I guess to define what a trash fish is you have to think about what your favorite species to target is and then what species negatively affects your desired fish's environment. I haven't talked to anyone that said carp aren't fun to catch, but when you think about how they directly affect your favorite bass pond, they are put on the top of the trash list.

I think it is funny that people bring up small pike as an example. Several studies have shown that those lakes containing an abundance of small pike have healthier than normal populations of other gamefish. It's two fold for the pike, they get to ravage yoy fish, but in turn, they get ravaged by other gamefish species.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Hooligan

I think it is funny that people bring up small pike as an example. Several studies have shown that those lakes containing an abundance of small pike have healthier than normal populations of other gamefish. It's two fold for the pike, they get to ravage yoy fish, but in turn, they get ravaged by other gamefish species.

I didn't know that, hooligan. Can you post a link to those studies? I assumed that after talking to some people up there, that the pike take over the whole lake. I guess I was talking to fisherman and not a fish biologist, though. Thank you for setting me straight.

[Hooligan]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I didn't know that, hooligan. Can you post a link to those studies? I assumed that after talking to some people up there, that the pike take over the whole lake. I guess I was talking to fisherman and not a fish biologist, though. Thank you for setting me straight.

I'll dig them up. Granted that isn't the case in every lake, but very often that is the case. They keep the yoy in check, and it provides an overall healthier population. Heck, Daryl can probably contribute on size structure in that instance.

[GenericAngler]

I think there are 3 kinds of trash fish. The kind that harm the water quality (carp), the kind that take over the ecosystem of the water body (carp) and the kind that don't eat a worm off a hook on a regular basis.

[Vikes forever]

Originally Posted by Mako

How about drum?

No way Drum is a "trash" fish! I always get a chuckle when I run into people fishing in the Elkhorn all disappointed because they caught a drum while trying to catch a catfish. They hit like a freakin freight train so the fight is fun and Imo the drum tastes way better anyway.


If lovin the taste of drum is wrong, I sure the hell don't want to be right...

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Vikes forever

If lovin the taste of Drum is wrong, I sure the hell don't want to be right...

Can I use that for my signature line, please?

[Bellevue Bobber]

I have found the label more fitting to what people would like to see prosper in the water ....

For example- When going up to Francis Case in SD they practically beg you to keep as many smallies as you want. I heard many locals complain about that "wolves" as they call them.

Ironically after catching our daily share of walleyes we switched to tubes and had a blast...hope they never get rid of them.

[Vikes forever]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Can I use that for my signature line, please?

Knock yourself out cause it's not mine anyway, I just stole it off of a bumper sticker I seen awhile back...

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Bellevue Bobber

I have found the label more fitting to what people would like to see prosper in the water ....

For example- When going up to Francis Case in SD they practically beg you to keep as many smallies as you want. I heard many locals complain about that "wolves" as they call them.

Ironically after catching our daily share of walleyes we switched to tubes and had a blast...hope they never get rid of them.

That's what I was trying to say. Trash fish in one region are another region's favorite "sport" fish. It may be beneficial to the lake's overall health, but fishermen will still say that they need to all die because they eat to many (insert favorite fish here). In this region it's more about fish that degrade water quality (carp) or the smaller overpopulaters (white perch, shad), and not the bigger predators like smallies or northerns. This is just my opinion because that's what this thread started as, right?

[LincolnLunger]

I don't really consider any fish a trash fish, with the exception I would have to say white perch are trash fish, for 1 I hate them, 2 they are all over when they get into lakes, 3 they won't stay off your hook when fishing for other species. I just plain hate em. other than white perch no fish in my book are trash fish.

like I said before I had a blast chasing gars, they are far far away from a trash fish to me. Carp are the same way, Carp are probably the hardest fighting fish I have ever caughten. They hit with vengence and run and bulldog you like there gonna die if you get them to shore. my longest fight ever was a carp, fought it for about 20 minutes long, it just wouldn't give up. and Ive never had a fish pull so much drag before.


White perch are trash fish, everthing else is NOT

[thedarkarcher]

i agree with LL. no fish are trash fish. there are invasive, native and introduced. some can be a pain in the arse, some can be very dangerous to a fishery. there are popular fish...sport fish. there are also people that like catching "those other fish". i fish for mostly gamefish, but i like catching drum, carp and gar on occasion.

[gn83tm]

Good discussion guys. I'd consider carp to be a "trash" fish for what they can do to a fishery and because they taste like trash. Personally, I like catching and eating drum and I don't know that they really ruin any fisheries.

The Minnesota pike discussion is interesting. I went to my uncle's cabin (on East Battle) every year for the first 18 years of my life - up until the mid 1980s. At that time northerns were the sought after fish and I don't really remember hearing much about walleye or fishing for them. Bullheads and carp were considered evil and you better not let a local see you doing anything with one other than making fertilizer out of it.

School and work and life took over and I hadn't been back there much until the last few years. Seems as though things have changed a lot. Walleye are the big thing now and northerns have taken a back seat, if not a ride in the trunk. I love walleye but I'm not really sure why the northern is shunned. I think I'll ask that question on the Minnesota forum and see what response I get.

[thedarkarcher]

the thing is about carp is they are not going to be leaving our waters. they moved in and set up shop permanently. we can take control measures but eventually they will show up again and again. so while we drool over japan's invasive largemouths and europeans drool over our invasive carp we might as well take advantage of the situation. the only thing that can actually label a fish a "trash" fish is angler perspective. i wonder if every angler who caught carp killed it and made use of it, if it would even make a difference? there are lots of guys that fish the river and toss gar and carp, does this really accomplish anything? i know it is against the law and it stinks up shore fishing spots and is it even logical?