Big Alkali Fish Camp Rant

[mkloster]

Originally Posted by Fishingnerd33

When he first came up the way he was saying it sounded like he was joking, he was really loud & sarcastic. We didn't know he was even the owner until like half-way through his tirade; just thought he was another fisherman just joking around. We didn't think that his comment was serious in any way until he said that he was serious. We quit laughing & grinning when he said he was serious and we tried to tell him that there weren't any signs saying it was for guests only...how are we supposed to know?

He was already ticked before he came over. He basically told us off and left, he wasn't trying to get anything to actually change, just said his piece and left. He didn't have any right to come up and talk to us the way he did. If he knew he was right and that we really shouldn't have been there why didn't he stay and talk with us when we were trying to ask questions? Wouldn't he want to explain it if it's really his private cleaning station? Why doesn't he have any signs posted? Are we just supposed to know that we aren't supposed to clean fish there?

By the way, to remove any doubt, we left the cleaning station much cleaner than when we got there. Cleaned up after the other people cleaning there too. Just saying the only mess we made was in the barrel, where the mess is supposed to be. The barrel wasn't even a 1/4 full with our crappie and like 5 northerns.

I just thought it was pretty ridiculous coming up and yelling at us and not letting us try to figure out why he was so upset. Even if he was correct, he has no right to start yelling at us and just walking off. If he would have come up and said something like "you know, this is supposed to be for guests only." That would have changed everything. I would have then offered to take the guts out to the dumpster for him. When we were there in the past, the cleaning station was always public. The owners told us that, just assumed the new guy was as nice as the last folks.

I don't doubt that both parties involved made mistakes and should have handled things differently. I'm sure you were probably the 10th non-paying people to use his facilities that day, and he was sick of cleaning up after them. As I said previously, by acting as he did, he probably is ticking off potential customers, but it is his business and can protect his paying customers as he sees fit.

Having never been there, I can't comment on how well it is made known that it is private. If it is on the resort property, that should be obvious. I would think signs would also be posted as well.

[Fishingnerd33]

I don't really think it's close enough to the fish camp for someone to come up there who doesn't know the situation and to assume that non-guests can't use it. Who knows, if I had it to do it over again, I wouldn't have done anything different while we were cleaning fish. I would have gone to him when we were done and asked if the cleaning station was for guests only. If it is, then would have apologized and asked him to post signs so this doesn't happen again to someone else.

I've worked for a business that had a fish cleaning station. We always let anyone use it, guests or not. Just the way we did things there, we didn't want to discourage any business (current or potential). We really didn't need any business either, the largest houseboat comany in the country.

[mkloster]

Originally Posted by Fishingnerd33

He came up and said, "Where you gonna put those guts when you're done?!" I didn't even look up and started chuckling a little, mom & dad were smiling.

Owner - "Don't just be standing there with that grin on your face, what you gonna do with those guts when you're done?!" I quit smiling and looked up, "yeah I'm talking to you! That's ridiculous coming in here and keeping 100 crappie!"

My dad said, "We kept 40, that's 10 a piece, that's not out of line at all sir."

Owner - "Yeah right, come in here and keeping 100 crappie that's just dumb! Doesn't take anyone 2 hours to clean 40 crappie!"

I said, "Well, I'm teaching my dad how to fillet, he's never done it so it's going to take awhile."

Owner - "There's no reason for people who aren't guests to spend that much time in here!"

I said, "Isn't this..?"

Owner - "I don't care what you have to say!"

Dad said, "Are we...?"
Owner - "I told you I don't care what you have to say! The next time you come here, don't keep 100 crappie and clean them at home!"

We were very wrong? What are we supposed to do? Start apologizing all over ourselves when he treats us like that? If we're wrong we're wrong. No reason at all to treat anyone like that. Does he think he's that important to just come up and start yelling at us? Not a way to treat people at all.

To be fair, that narrative is entirely different than how you told the story in your initial post.

[Fishingnerd33]

Realized that after you pointed that out. Thank you for showing me that, I guess I got a little worked up when I posted the original story. Get to not putting everything in my head down on the keyboard.

[BucketMouth87]

I also thought you kept 41 crappie? Ouch that hurts to even say that!

[Wirenut]

Originally Posted by Fishingnerd33

I would have gone to him when we were done and asked if the cleaning station was for guests only. If it is, then would have apologized and asked him to post signs so this doesn't happen again to someone else.

Funny, I thought permission was to be granted before trespassing.

[fish_finder]

See people this is an example of why you don't post rants on a public internet forum.

[fish_finder]

Originally Posted by BucketMouth87

I also thought you kept 41 crappie? Ouch that hurts to even say that!

Why? Isn't the bag limit for crappie 30?

[Fishingnerd33]

Originally Posted by BucketMouth87

I also thought you kept 41 crappie? Ouch that hurts to even say that!

I know it's a lot of fish. Of the 30 or so we threw back, I caught about 20 of them. Mom, dad & grandpa are of the thinking to keep a lot and put them in the freezer to eat. They did promise to eat them all this summer...which is really good for me!

[Fish Recycler]

Nerd, you know I love ya.

Here's me looking at it from this guy's perspective (and I come from a family who owned a resort).

- People come there and rape the lake from which he makes his living
(Not saying that you did, just that people do sometimes)

- When fishing is good, business is good. When people take more than their share, whether that actually affects fishing or is percieved to, his business takes a hit.
(Not saying you took more than your share, just that this was his perception.)

- He doesn't make a lot of money. He has to work really hard to make a little money, but he gets to work out on a lake and not answer to some jerk boss. But people piss on him sometimes, leaving fish guts all over his fish cleaning station - people who aren't even paying to stay at his place.
(Not that you did or were going to, but that people do sometimes)

- The state doesn't pay for that fish cleaning station, he does. And the state doesn't pay for his LP or his cabin doors when someone gets drunk and breaks them. His daughter has to go clean up after "reckless" guests, and that eats at him.
(Not that it's your fault, just that it is what it is)

I have been a guest under this new ownership and Amy and I had a great stay. We really liked those folks.

Unquestionably, this guy handled this situation badly, but to be honest, just as we are your "outlet" to vent, you were his. Unfortunate for you, so don't take it personally, but you were the object of his ventilation for all the people who have screwed him, but that he didn't get to talk to.

As you know, I work in the outdoors and with lots of people like this guy. Here's a matter of etiquitte that will serve you (and all of us) well, if you want it.

When you're at a state park, if you see the ranger or one of the park staff, make it a point to go out of your way and thank them for the good job they're doing. Their work is often thankless, and they have to deal with a lot of yay-hoos. You know those gross county park outhouses? Someone has to clean them, and it's a brown-shirt park ranger type. Show 'em some love.

When you're at a private access, whether it's a fish camp, private put-in, or resort, patronize them with some form of business. If you're not staying there but you want to use their facilities, buy some bait or some refreshments or something, small talk a little, and ask if it's okay to clean fish at the end of the day at their cleaning station, and get the permission. Go out of your way to talk about how you plan to practice C&R or selective harvest. If you see trash, clean it up (even if not within their line of sight.) Help these guys out. They work long, long days for relatively little money. Not your problem, but you can still bless 'em a little, and it comes back to ya.

Teeg

[Fishingnerd33]

Originally Posted by Wirenut

Funny, I thought permission was to be granted before trespassing.

As I said before, the only experience I've had at Alkali or anywhere else is that the fish cleaning station was for everyone. The thought of asking permission for using that didn't even cross my mind. How is it trespassing if there is no indication that it is private? I really don't know how more plainly to put it.

[cutbaitking]

from an outside point of view, i see nothing that you did wrong. sounds like someone needs a lesson in customer service.

[Willie Boy]

Thanks Teeg! I'll plan on putting those words of advice in play in the next 5 days (and longer...)

[Fishingnerd33]

Originally Posted by Fish Recycler

Nerd, you know I love ya.

Here's me looking at it from this guy's perspective (and I come from a family who owned a resort).

- People come there and rape the lake from which he makes his living
(Not saying that you did, just that people do sometimes)

- When fishing is good, business is good. When people take more than their share, whether that actually affects fishing or is percieved to, his business takes a hit.
(Not saying you took more than your share, just that this was his perception.)

- He doesn't make a lot of money. He has to work really hard to make a little money, but he gets to work out on a lake and not answer to some jerk boss. But people piss on him sometimes, leaving fish guts all over his fish cleaning station - people who aren't even paying to stay at his place.
(Not that you did or were going to, but that people do sometimes)

- The state doesn't pay for that fish cleaning station, he does. And the state doesn't pay for his LP or his cabin doors when someone gets drunk and breaks them. His daughter has to go clean up after "reckless" guests, and that eats at him.
(Not that it's your fault, just that it is what it is)

I have been a guest under this new ownership and Amy and I had a great stay. We really liked those folks.

Unquestionably, this guy handled this situation badly, but to be honest, just as we are your "outlet" to vent, you were his. Unfortunate for you, so don't take it personally, but you were the object of his ventilation for all the people who have screwed him, but that he didn't get to talk to.

As you know, I work in the outdoors and with lots of people like this guy. Here's a matter of etiquitte that will serve you (and all of us) well, if you want it.

When you're at a state park, if you see the ranger or one of the park staff, make it a point to go out of your way and thank them for the good job they're doing. Their work is often thankless, and they have to deal with a lot of yay-hoos. You know those gross county park outhouses? Someone has to clean them, and it's a brown-shirt park ranger type. Show 'em some love.

When you're at a private access, whether it's a fish camp, private put-in, or resort, patronize them with some form of business. If you're not staying there but you want to use their facilities, buy some bait or some refreshments or something, small talk a little, and ask if it's okay to clean fish at the end of the day at their cleaning station, and get the permission. Go out of your way to talk about how you plan to practice C&R or selective harvest. If you see trash, clean it up (even if not within their line of sight.) Help these guys out. They work long, long days for relatively little money. Not your problem, but you can still bless 'em a little, and it comes back to ya.

Teeg

Thanks Teeg. I agree with you, I know exactly what you're talking about and also know what some people are like when they don't care what they do to the lake. Last summer opened my eyes to that. I cleaned up after tons of people after they got done being stupid.

We did give them some business and dad trying to talk to the guy. Their family was all sitting outside in the shade just kinda relaxing and dad went over to the camp to buy some stuff. He went in and bought some bags for the fish and a bag of ice from them. You know, said hi and chatted a little; he said the guy was a little gruff and dad didn't want to upset him so he left and came over to start cleaning.

Thanks again Teeg, always good to hear your perspective.

[mkloster]

Originally Posted by Fishingnerd33

As I said before, the only experience I've had at Alkali or anywhere else is that the fish cleaning station was for everyone. The thought of asking permission for using that didn't even cross my mind. How is it trespassing if there is no indication that it is private? I really don't know how more plainly to put it.

It is your responsibility to know if you are on public land or not, regardless of whether or not it is posted. "I didn't know" does not work in a court room.

[Harold]

Originally Posted by mkloster

It is your responsibility to know if you are on public land or not, regardless of whether or not it is posted. "I didn't know" does not work in a court room.

If you are on land that is Federally Owned (that used to mean you and me) with Public Access, managed by the State (or not), and within that "facility" is located an unmarked (other than it is a "Fish Cleaning Station") and "open" building (substitute outhouse here, also) one would be hard pressed to defend charging ANYONE with tresspassing.

A simple sign, with the words PRIVATE or FOR GUEST USE ONLY would have been appropriate.

And the family that was "disrespected" would have had even a GREATER experience.

Sorry, NO sympathies to the camp management here.

Harold F.

[wneb.fisher]

I am with Nerd on this one. I don't know why everyone is jumping him about the legality of using a fish cleaning station. I understand that it may not have been public and maybe permission should have been granted, but from past experience he was doing what he knew. This is human nature. I think we just need to drop it. Nerd was simply stating his experience there in the hopes that if anybody else should go there to check things out before assuming what is for public use and what is private. It is something that can be used for all of our benefit. We live and learn from other's experiences. What is done is done and there is nothing we can do now about. There is no rewind button.

There has been some great advice put on this post about how to treat establishment owners and for that, thank you, but don't critisize nerd for something he really did not have any control over. Take it in and learn from it.

[Bellevue Bobber]

I wonder what would happen if you cleaned your fish on his dock, you know the one with the sign "no fishing from dock".










JOKING!
BB

[mkloster]

Originally Posted by wneb.fisher

Nerd was simply stating his experience there in the hopes that if anybody else should go there to check things out before assuming what is for public use and what is private.

No, actually his original post was that of a rant, not informational in nature. While (thankfully) it has evolved into a learning opportunity for all of us, it did not start that way.

[wneb.fisher]

alright... point taken