Omaha Mall Shooting

[Ty S]

http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html

[Chad]

9 dead...

[Catfishsteve]

looking pretty bad, saying a few extra prayers this afternoon.

[LundLover]

Unbelievable. Apparently, it can happen in Nebraska too. My prayers go out to those involved. Very scary stuff.

[Mako]

There are some crazy people out there...

[BPbowhunter]

[CatfishBoy]

What a shame

[ElkMan]

You just have to wonder what makes people go off the deep end like this. Really a sad, sad day.

[MrPike]

I have a couple questions, that I was hoping some of you others out there
could answer.

1. Are all SKS rifles internally fed, meaning no detachable magazines?
2. What is the normal capacity of one of these firearms?

I hope and pray for the families of the victims.

[Catfishsteve]

From what I've heard on the news, this SKS was an AK-47 knockoff.

They also indicated that the shooter carried a pair of magazines jungled clipped together, so apparently like most AK-47's, this one was also externally fed. The standard magazine for the AK-47 is 30 rounds, I believe. The standard caliber is 7.62x33. I thought the chief of police said something this morning about 7.66, don't know where that came from.

Over the years, semi-auto knock-offs of the AK like this one have been made in various calibers for the US market.

[MrPike]

I just watched that press conference Steve, apparently the media was throwing out bad information last night right and left.

From the witness accounts I saw, an SKS just didn't sound right, unless it was reloaded with some external mag. I don't know enough about the SKS to know if any "Clip" fed versions were out there.

With an AK, the accounts of casings raining down seem more realistic.

Whatever the gun, it just makes me rethink as a responsible firearm owner that I need to be more careful about how my guns are stored.

I think the safe is going on the Christmas list.

It was appalling last night the media frenzy this created. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Catfishsteve]

An interesting take on the Westroads mall massacre from someone outside the state of NE.

[Shorty]

Interesting read Catfish Steve.

Another very sad event.

[LundLover]

Good point Steve. I will have to forward it to a few people I know.

[brian40]

Originally Posted by Catfishsteve

From what I've heard on the news, this SKS was an AK-47 knockoff.

They also indicated that the shooter carried a pair of magazines jungled clipped together, so apparently like most AK-47's, this one was also externally fed. The standard magazine for the AK-47 is 30 rounds, I believe. The standard caliber is 7.62x33. I thought the chief of police said something this morning about 7.66, don't know where that came from.

Over the years, semi-auto knock-offs of the AK like this one have been made in various calibers for the US market.

Caliber is 7.62 x 39 for both SKS and AK's. There is one rare original SKS that accepted AK mags, but very rare. Standard SKS is non-removable magazine that holds 10 rounds and fed by stripper clips. There are 20 and 30 round modifications for the SKS, but have heard they do not work very well (i.e. jams).

I heard them call it an SKS on one news show and then show a picture of an AK on another.

They want to glorify the evils of the "assault weapons", yet can you imagine the damage he would have caused with a 12 gauge??

[jimbosan]

Not that it matters but here is a little history of the SKS
the Mosin-Nagant, were too long and heavy and fired overly powerful cartridges, creating excessive recoil. These cartridges, such as the 7.92x57mm Mauser, .303 British, .30-06 Springfield, and 7.62 x 54R were effective to ranges of up to 2,000 meters (2,200 yd); however, it was noted that most firefights took place at maximum ranges of between 100 meters (110 yd) and 300 meters (330 yd). Both the Soviet Union and Germany realized this and designed new weapons for smaller, intermediate-power cartridges. The German approach was the production of a series of intermediate cartridges and rifles in the interwar period, eventually developing the Maschinenkarabiner, or machine-carbine, which later evolved into the MP44 Sturmgewehr, or "assault rifle" chambered in the 7.92x33mm Kurz intermediate round.
Meanwhile the Soviets produced an entire family of weapons designed around the new 7.62x39mm M43 cartridge, which was probably developed from the late 1930s German GeCo cartridge[2]. Among these were a bolt-action carbine, which was never produced beyond the prototype; a select-fire assault rifle which became the AK-47; a light machine-gun or squad automatic weapon which became the Degtyarov RPD, and a semiautomatic carbine, which became the SKS. A small number of SKS rifles were tested on the front line in early 1945 against the Germans in World War II. [3]
Design-wise, the SKS relies on the AVS-36 (developed by same designer) to a point that some consider it a shortened AVS-36, stripped of select-fire capability and rechambered for the 7.62x39mm cartridge[1]. It also owes heavily to the earlier SVT-40 and M-44 Mosin-Nagant rifles that it replaced, incorporating both the semiautomatic firepower of the SVT (albeit in a more manageable cartridge) and the small, fast-handling size and integral bayonet of the bolt-action carbine.
In 1949, the SKS was officially adopted into the Soviet Army, produced at the Tula Armory from 1949 until 1955 and the Izhevsk Armory in 1953 and 1954. Although the quality of Russian SKS rifles manufactured at these state-run arsenals was quite high, its design was already obsolete compared to the Kalashnikov which was selective-fire, lighter, had three times the magazine capacity, and had the potential to be less labor-intensive to manufacture. Gradually over the next few years, AK-47 production increased until the extant SKS carbines in service were relegated primarily to non-infantry and to second-line troops. They remained in service in this fashion even as late as the 1980s, and possibly the early 1990s. To this day, the SKS carbine is used by some ceremonial Russian honor guards; it is far less ubiquitous than the AK-47 but both original Russian SKS rifles and copies can still be found today in civilian hands as well as in the hands of third-world militias and insurgent groups.
The SKS was to be a gap-filling firearm produced using the proven operating mechanism design of the PTRS and using proven milled forging manufacturing techniques. This was to provide a fallback for the radically new and experimental design of the AK-47, in the event that the AK were to prove a failure. In fact, the original stamped receiver AK-47 had to be quickly redesigned to use a milled receiver which delayed production, and extended the SKS rifles' service life.

[edit] Service

[jimk]

We hear time and time again that these people that do this are after recognition. I didn't see the interview but heard on T-n-T this morning that a kid they interviewed said he wanted to go out in style. (Thats another topic). We can't not report on what happens but can't we report on the victims and their lives and families and report very little about the people that do these horrific crimes?

--By we I meant the media...

[magnusthebigbrownlab]

I'm glad that many of the radio shows stopped calling this piece of garbage by his name today. That was really starting to bother me yesterday.

[mtsamuelson]

This tragedy really hits home to me because the mall is literally 5 minutes away from where I work and live. A mall I have been in many times before, and a department store I have been in a few times. Something like this really puts into perspective just how fragile life is and that no matter where you live, it can happen to you. It's also a sobering reminder that there are some really sick individuals out there.

Here are those people who lost their lives while they were going about day-to-day activities such as working or shopping. Please keep them, their families, and everyone that witnessed this horrible event in your thoughts and prayers:

Gary Scharf, 48, Lincoln, NE (customer)
John McDonald, 65, Council Bluffs, IA (customer)
Angie Schuster, 36, Omaha, NE (employee)
Maggie Webb, 24 (employee)
Janet Jorgensen, 66, Omaha, NE (employee)
Diane Trent, 53, Omaha, NE (employee)
Gary Joy, 56, Omaha, NE (employee)
Beverly Flynn, 47, Omaha, NE (employee)

I am overwhelmed by sadness and as I type this, tears stream down my face. I just don't really know what else to say other then never take life for granted. Never take friends and family for granted, and never take love for granted because you never know when it will be taken away from you.
I am so sorry to all of those affected by this tragedy. From every account I have read, we lost some really great people. I hope that in time your heart is healed and your mind is put to ease. But it will take time. I just want all of you to know that you have the full support of the Omaha (and surrounding areas) community, the state of Nebraska, and the whole country.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by Catfishsteve

An interesting take on the Westroads mall massacre from someone outside the state of NE.

I just got to reading this article...but I don't agree. I don't' think it's relevant at all that they were in no-gun zones. I don't think the shooters looked to see that they were no-gun zones or not. Most of the shooters mentioned in the article were going to do their shootings at their respective locations, no-gun zone or not. Others just chose a public place. The author seems to suggest that the shooters cared about their lives or cared about being stopped. Unfortunately, I don't think that was the case at all in any of these tragic events.

"Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did."

Again, the difference is that a killer stalking the family or robbing a home would care about getting out.