H1N1 Vaccine Dangers

[tjm]

Originally Posted by H2only

so many of "our" recorded deaths could be from the regular flu as well.

I doubt that, If a person dies, I'm guessing the doctor just doesn't shrug his shoulders and go "I guess it's H1N1?". Im no doctor, but I'm guessing they actually look for a cause of death.

I would also guess even if the CDC is not keeping exact count, each state, or doctor or facilty that is in operation is keeping track of thier own cases.

[H2only]

Originally Posted by tjm

I doubt that, If a person dies, I'm guessing the doctor just doesn't shrug his shoulders and go "I guess it's H1N1?". Im no doctor, but I'm guessing they actually look for a cause of death.

I would also guess even if the CDC is not keeping exact count, each state, or doctor or facilty that is in operation is keeping track of thier own cases.

I was referring to numbers of infected, as it is now, many that dont have it are being counted as having it, thus raising the numbers and the hype

[arrowhead]

Originally Posted by tontoman

From the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services Oct 9, 2009:

"Pregnant women are at high risk for serious and fatal outcomes from novel H1N1 infection... Please strongly recommend your pregnant patients receive an H1N1 flu shot as soon as it is available"

If you don't want a shot then don't get one. But seriously, the flu shot saves lives.

This is what freaks me out, we ollady is pregnant and I worry she may get it. I could care less if I get it. At first I was pushing her to get it, now I am not sure. She has already made up her mind she wont put this in her body because it hasnt been tested enough. I dont quite know what to think of this.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by H2only

I was referring to numbers of infected, as it is now, many that dont have it are being counted as having it, thus raising the numbers and the hype

And many that do have it are not being counted because the rapid influenze test gives a false negative 40% of the time, per CDC.
I stated before that I won't tell anyone they should/shouldn't get it. I just think some of the reasons people are saying on why they aren't getting it are misinformed and uneducated. I have talked to people who said "I'm not putting that in my body, look at all of the nasty chemicals in it" as they are smoking a cigarette. Classic. It seems more people are not taking it to stick it to the man because they said we had to get it, instead of making a rational decision, and just to be clear, a rational decision could be to take it or not take it.

[H2only]

sure but in the same breath you could say, this H1N1 is also being highly misinformed to the public. The hype isnt matching up to the claims in my eyes. It has been said over and over that it's not as bad as the seasonal flu, do we freak out this much ever year over the seasonal flu? no.
When someone mentions the seasonal flu, does everyone freak out about it? no

There is truly something going on regarding the fear tactics of this and the numbers arent adding up

[Elwood]

Arrowhead, that is a tuff call. I would get the Dr.'s opinion for sure. Mine said I was a healthy middle aged man that never gets sick, so I would be taking it from someone that really needed it.

[arrowhead]

She asked her doctor and they said to get it, she isnt though. She is just like her dad he doesnt take vaccines or any medicine unless he's near death. She even had a research company call and ask if they could moniter her after she got the shot, that really freaked her out.

[Elwood]

Talk her into it, death is not cool.

[tmn515]

I am convinced that if Obama said that you shouldn't get the shot, some of you would be going the other way on this and getting it. I just don't understand the link between Obama and this shot? Why is he even brought up in it? Anyone want to help me out?

Troy

[Harold]

Originally Posted by tmn515

I am convinced that if Obama said that you shouldn't get the shot, some of you would be going the other way on this and getting it. I just don't understand the link between Obama and this shot? Why is he even brought up in it? Anyone want to help me out?

Troy

Why, Troy. You've already made your stance clear.

BTW, if this IS a National Epidemic, WHY ISN'T THE SHOT FREE?? Or are the "people" less worthy than the BILLIONS given out to __________ ?

The concern should be that this strain may develope into something really nasty. That scare hasn't been as pronounced, yet!

Harold F.

[H2only]

Originally Posted by tmn515

I am convinced that if Obama said that you shouldn't get the shot, some of you would be going the other way on this and getting it. I just don't understand the link between Obama and this shot? Why is he even brought up in it? Anyone want to help me out?

Troy

Obama is involved because "he" declared it a National Health Emergency

[tmn515]

Not to get political or anything, because I think this is a VERY important topic, but how is this (Obama declaring a National Health Emergency) a bad thing? You are reading to much into a good thing.

With the reports of hospitals accross the country having very large loads, and in some areas unmanageable loads, this does nothing but help the people. From my experience in getting this, H1N1 moves rapidly. Some may need no doctor (as was my case-but my g/f forced me to go), some may need a doctor or even worse a hospital. If a loved one of mine were to get very ill in the following weeks and months, I sure wouldn't want them sitting around waiting on a system that is not prepared to handle the masses of people that are projected. Hopefully that does not happen!

I think here in Lincoln while we have seen a large number of people come down with this stuff, we are not out of the storm yet. If things were to get worse even, atleast we have more than one option in terms of hospitals. Even still, we are short drive from Omaha. Think about a small town say in W. Nebraska that serves a population of 3-4,000 people. If that town really gets hammered by this illness, the people are essentially scrued unless there is a plan in place. There needs to be a plan.

I would rather see preparation and plans set in place now, and be wrong about the projections later, than not having a plan and being right about the projections. Knocking a person for planning and preparing for the worst is pretty crappy in my opinion. I call being prepared, responsible, and to me that is a breath of fresh air.

Troy

[Fishingnerd33]

Originally Posted by tmn515

Not to get political or anything, because I think this is a VERY important topic, but how is this (Obama declaring a National Health Emergency) a bad thing? You are reading to much into a good thing.

Troy

Another instance of him making the government more powerful, getting their hands into one more pie. I don't need the government telling me I have to do things (take a flu shot, especially telling me I either get it or I get quarantined), I don't think so.

If I'm sick, I stay home until I'm better, simple as that. I don't need big brother telling me what to do.

[H2only]

again:

“When the President formally declares a national emergency, he may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens,” writes Harold Relyea, a specialist in national government with the Congressional Research Service, an arm of the Library of Congress.

now ask yourself, is this truly an National Emergency? look at the numbers and ask yourself this again.

[jarredbehrendt]

I think that the goal all along has been preventing a widespread epidemic which could lead to the disease mutating into something far worse than it currently is. This vaccine works the same as do all others, the more people who get the vaccine, the less likely that an epidemic breaks out (or a pandemic). Limiting the number of cases will limit the chance of mutation.

The so called "hype" this is getting is just the media taking something that isnt exactly marketable to their audience and trying to sell it some other way. I very seriously doubt the intention is to increase the governments hold on out lives (by ensureing that we live?). Or for all of you conspiracy theorists it is the government trying to scare the population as a whole into doing what is best for the population as a whole...

And as far as these "harmful" ingredients, I would venture to guess that most of that is just media hype as well. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence on that.

[H2only]

Originally Posted by jarredbehrendt

I think that the goal all along has been preventing a widespread epidemic which could lead to the disease mutating into something far worse than it currently is. This vaccine works the same as do all others, the more people who get the vaccine, the less likely that an epidemic breaks out (or a pandemic). Limiting the number of cases will limit the chance of mutation.

The so called "hype" this is getting is just the media taking something that isnt exactly marketable to their audience and trying to sell it some other way. I very seriously doubt the intention is to increase the governments hold on out lives (by ensureing that we live?). Or for all of you conspiracy theorists it is the government trying to scare the population as a whole into doing what is best for the population as a whole...

And as far as these "harmful" ingredients, I would venture to guess that most of that is just media hype as well. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence on that.

is there scientific proof the vaccine works? how come many people who receive the simple flu shot, still get the flu? You could get 100 people in a room give 50 of them candy, if those 50 dont get sick, can you say the candy is 100% percent effective in reducing sickness? nope
I have yet to see actual proof this vaccine even works.

It's not a conspriracy theory either, remember back in the day when the "good" doctors believed and practiced the release of blood to get rid of infections? did that make it proof? did it work? yes, some people got rid of their illness, did that mean the action was proof? no, they just happened to get better
the same goes here.

[H2only]

Originally Posted by jarredbehrendt

And as far as these "harmful" ingredients, I would venture to guess that most of that is just media hype as well. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence on that.

and you bring up a good point here, why havent we seen the actual list of ingredients from the makers? could it be because of what is in it? wouldnt that end alot of this? just release the actual ingredients from all the various producers of the vaccines.

actually, nevermind, I found it for you: (and yes, you will see "those harmful ingredients" listed)

Swine H1N1 Vaccine Packages’ Inserts Ingredients and Warnings

I did find this interesting in the Sanofi insert sheet:

8.1. Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A
(H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or Fluzone vaccine. It is also not known whether these
vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction
capacity. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman
only if clearly needed.

wow! werent we told over and over, it's been proven safe for pregnant women? in fact they are advised to get it. Actually, if you read through all of those listed, many say the same thing about pregnant and or nursing women.

[jarredbehrendt]

[QUOTE=H2only;257519]is there scientific proof the vaccine works? how come many people who receive the simple flu shot, still get the flu? You could get 100 people in a room give 50 of them candy, if those 50 dont get sick, can you say the candy is 100% percent effective in reducing sickness? nope
[QUOTE]

The reason that many people will receive the flu shot and still get the flu is simple, different strains. Even the same strain that has mutated will not be prevented.

And Im pretty sure at the time bloodletting was a common practice most "doctors" attended no medical training, todays doctors can not be compared to medicine men of the dark ages.

If you look within the link you provided under studies, the evidence of it working is listed.

[jarredbehrendt]

Originally Posted by H2only

and you bring up a good point here, why havent we seen the actual list of ingredients from the makers? could it be because of what is in it? wouldnt that end alot of this? just release the actual ingredients from all the various producers of the vaccines.

actually, nevermind, I found it for you: (and yes, you will see "those harmful ingredients" listed)

Swine H1N1 Vaccine Packages’ Inserts Ingredients and Warnings

I did find this interesting in the Sanofi insert sheet:

8.1. Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A
(H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or Fluzone vaccine. It is also not known whether these
vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction
capacity. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman
only if clearly needed.

wow! werent we told over and over, it's been proven safe for pregnant women? in fact they are advised to get it. Actually, if you read through all of those listed, many say the same thing about pregnant and or nursing women.

Now that is interesting, is this the same shot being given here (I am assuming so)?

I see that it contains the adjuevant (squaline) but see no indication of mercury in it. Is it listed somewhere besides composition or excipients?

[H2only]

Originally Posted by jarredbehrendt

Now that is interesting, is this the same shot being given here (I am assuming so)?

I see that it contains the adjuevant (squaline) but see no indication of mercury in it. Is it listed somewhere besides composition or excipients?

"Preservative content is 5μg Thimerosal USP per 0.5mL dose or 2.5 micrograms organic mercury (Hg) per 0.5mL dose"

as well, our medical practices of today will seem barbaric in a hundred years from now.