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Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 03:43 PM
A short preface before the good stuff. I'm in the middle of summer classes, have two weeks left and have hit the point where I want to do anything but homework in the evenings after I get off work. :aawhistling: So...last night I decided to do a little experiment with a couple knots. I had some homework that was due last night, so I couldn't dedicate my entire night to the world of knot tying but I still think I got some pretty conclusive results.

I've been using fluorocarbon this summer with mixed results, my knot skills aren't what I thought. Using braid a lot made me lazy with my knots. Last trip out, 2 lost lures due to poor knots I was ready to work on my knots and get more confidence in them. I had some old mono laying around so I practiced several different knots and ended up testing two.

The knots: improved clinch and Pitzen knot

Link to the Pitzen knot: http://www.orlandooutfitters.com/knots/knot.asp?id=12

Link to the improved clinch knot: http://www.animatedknots.com/improvedclinch/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

The line: 8lb Berkley Vanish Fluorocarbon and 8lb P-Line Floroclear

The conditions: took a 2' piece of line, tied one of the knots to my Berkley digital scale and the other end (same knot) to a hook and eye in our pantry door. After tieing each knot, I pulled slowly until the line failed.
The results:

Berkley Vanish

improved clinch - average break point 7lb 3oz
Pitzen knot - average break point 9lb 3oz

P-Line Floroclear

improved clinch - average break point 6lb 15oz
Pitzen knot - average break point 8lb 8oz


A few more tid bits of interesting info...

I messed around with the improved clinch and found that by allowing only one wrap to overlap another, it brought the break point down on average of 2lb 3oz on the Vanish and 2lb 8oz on the Floroclear.

The average time it took me to tie the improved clinch was 1min 23 seconds compared to the Pitzen of 46 seconds. On both knots, I kept the line very wet and made sure to not allow any wraps to overlap.

While I'm far from being anything close to a scientist, I found the results quite interesting. If I have time, I plan on trying several other knots and seeing what the results are from that. I don't have scale to measure a simulated hookset, but I thought the straight line pull test was pretty interesting.

I learned way more doing that than all of the time I've dedicated to homework this summer, and to think it was all in one night! :2thumbsup:

Hope the info helps someone, it sure was fun!

JBIG
07-12-2011, 03:47 PM
You officially live up to the "fishingnerd" name......:wRazzing:

Cool stuff.

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 03:50 PM
You officially live up to the "fishingnerd" name......:wRazzing:

Cool stuff.

The sad thing is I felt really nerdy posting this. But I had a breakage problem last time out, figured out what it was and I think I found a solution. Now if only summer classes were this fun... No more knots tonight, that term paper due Wednesday isn't going to write itself unfortunately.:aano:

Fish4Fun
07-12-2011, 04:20 PM
Gold stuff Ryan! Lots of factors to keep in mind when discussing knots and knot stregnth. Some types of lines work better with different types of knots as well.

Too bad you aren't younger. You may have been able to pull that off as a science experiment if you broke it down from a line composition standpoint.

Fish4Fun
07-12-2011, 04:21 PM
Gold stuff Ryan! Lots of factors to keep in mind when discussing knots and knot stregnth. Some types of lines work better with different types of knots as well.

Too bad you aren't younger. You may have been able to pull that off as a science experiment if you broke it down from a line composition standpoint.

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Oh come on...I'm not that big of a nerd!! :xDOH: And yes, you're right, that would have been a really cool experiment to get credit for in HS science classes.

drcarplove
07-12-2011, 04:33 PM
I use a lot of small hooks and light line. A well tied knot is very important no matter the knot. Easiest for me the Clinch, improved clinch, The surgeons loop knot, and the uniknot. The one that always seem to tie perfectly for me is the Uniknot, don't know why but the loops are nearly always even and non overlapping. I need to try it as a hook knot more often and see how it does. The clinch and improved clinch are easy to tie but seem to have imperfections more often. I need to learn the palomar if i ever start bass or catfishing with larger hooks I guess.

Frank

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 04:40 PM
I personally haven't tried the Pitzen before while fishing, but I'm definitely going to give it a shot after seeing those results. I normally use a palomar with braid, but on bigger lures where the loop that goes around it needs to be too big I will definitely try the Pitzen there as well. I use the Double Uni when tying braid to the leader, but haven't used it at all with lures. May have to give that a shot.

For more scientifically reliable results: http://www.fishingclub.com/video-tv/knot-wars.aspx

Fish4Fun
07-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Oh come on...I'm not that big of a nerd!! :xDOH: And yes, you're right, that would have been a really cool experiment to get credit for in HS science classes.

Just messing with ya! I heard about science fair projects on the news today and that was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read your post.

I need to learn a few more knots. There are so many out there to choose from it may be a good thing for me to look at in the winter.

Omaha
07-12-2011, 04:41 PM
Great info. I'll have to play around with these some time soon.

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Just messing with ya! I heard about science fair projects on the news today and that was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read your post.

I need to learn a few more knots. There are so many out there to choose from it may be a good thing for me to look at in the winter.

You have time in the winter? No ice fish?

Fish On
07-12-2011, 04:50 PM
I don't use floro but the trilene is great knot for mono and braid. I usually go a couple extra twists with braid. I can only recall 1 time in the last 5+ years that I had a issue with it. I had new fireline (30lb) snagged, after several dozen jerks the knot finally slipped. I leave just a tad longer tag end with new line now. I've read where the knot is actually stronger than the line itself.


http://www.netknots.com/html/trilene_knot.html

KING OF SNAGS
07-12-2011, 05:04 PM
From what I have learned is the Polomar and double Polomar are the strongest knots and best all around for braid and floro ...... the double polomar is two trips through the eye of whatever your tying I was told to use the double when fishing for cats or anything that will put up a greater fight because braid will pull out unless you double it up.

Fish4Fun
07-12-2011, 05:05 PM
You have time in the winter? No ice fish?

Just tried hard water last year. I only get out a handful of times in the winter. I got frostbite when I was younger so it is tough on my hands when the temps are really cold.

So... yea I have more time in the winter for projects!;)

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 05:11 PM
Just tried hard water last year. I only get out a handful of times in the winter. I got frostbite when I was younger so it is tough on my hands when the temps are really cold.

So... yea I have more time in the winter for projects!;)

Bummer about the frostbite, solution: Ice armor X gloves. Your hands won't be cold, they have a pocket on the back of the hand for a warmer. Now is a good time to look for them!

BSS TRKR
07-12-2011, 06:36 PM
I always superglue my knots: that way I dont have to worry about them slipping or breaking.

shawnfish
07-12-2011, 08:28 PM
palomar knot is the strongest all around knot no matter wich type of line you use,imo. hey nerd, it really takes you that long to tie a knot? not dissin ya but i can tie it in the dark with my eyes shut in about 15 secs. although 32 years of doing it probally helps...

bigjon61
07-12-2011, 08:50 PM
palomar knot is the strongest all around knot no matter wich type of line you use,imo. hey nerd, it really takes you that long to tie a knot? not dissin ya but i can tie it in the dark with my eyes shut in about 15 secs. although 32 years of doing it probally helps...

You don't know how long it takes me to tie a knot then....:eusa_boohoo:

Fishingnerd33
07-12-2011, 09:05 PM
palomar knot is the strongest all around knot no matter wich type of line you use,imo. hey nerd, it really takes you that long to tie a knot? not dissin ya but i can tie it in the dark with my eyes shut in about 15 secs. although 32 years of doing it probally helps...

When I'm making dang sure everything is perfect, yes it does take me that long to tie a knot. For a palomar knot, probably 10-20 seconds is all. It's an overhand knot with a twist, shouldn't take that long. Tying different knots is going to take longer, and I was trying to take out any human error that would weaken the knot in any way for the experiment.

Dux2bux
07-12-2011, 09:24 PM
From what I have learned is the Polomar and double Polomar are the strongest knots and best all around for braid and floro ...... the double polomar is two trips through the eye of whatever your tying I was told to use the double when fishing for cats or anything that will put up a greater fight because braid will pull out unless you double it up.
This is the knot I trust the most with no failures. I have had eyes open up and straighted hooks but never a slipped knot.

spamaloap
07-12-2011, 10:26 PM
Braid is all I use and the palomar is all I tie, never had a problem with it, From 15# braided for bass and panfish to 80# for kitties

quackdaddy
07-13-2011, 08:47 AM
I also use the Trilene on mono. It seems like one of the outdoor magazines conducted a similar test and and that is when I began using it. It seems like it was slightly weaker than a couple other knots, but the chances of producing a faulty knot were lower. It has worked great for me.

KING OF SNAGS
07-13-2011, 09:22 AM
I use the trilene knot on mono/flouro and usually my line will break leaving the knot intact on the hook. It will slip on braid so I use the palomar knot for braid.
That is why I always tie the Polomar knot! I have lost numerous fish bc the knot would sinch down so tight it would basically cut itself. The line itself should break not where the knot is.... Polomar knot won't "cut" itself but you can run the risk of it slipping out on braid, so you double it.

shawnfish
07-13-2011, 11:01 AM
When I'm making dang sure everything is perfect, yes it does take me that long to tie a knot. For a palomar knot, probably 10-20 seconds is all. It's an overhand knot with a twist, shouldn't take that long. Tying different knots is going to take longer, and I was trying to take out any human error that would weaken the knot in any way for the experiment.

i meant the 2 in your experiment, again i wasnt hitting below the belt. sorry if you took it the wrong way. i did some tests over the winter with different lines and knots with varying results, but the palomar did the best overall with most knots, and a couple others did better on some compared to the palomar..i have the results if your interested to compare with your results. again i wasnt being a D***head, sometimes i come off that way but dont mean too....